Old Colwyn East Residents Association
Minute of a talk by Patrick Slattery on Wednesday the 12th March 2008
Patrick introduced himself and handed out a flyer describing his new book entitled Around Old Colwyn he explained that if those members who would like the book would like to fill out cards and send them to the stated address, together with a cheque then the book would be sent to them free of postage. He explained that he has dedicated the book to Old Colwyn Junior School and any profits from the sales will be donated to the school.
Patrick introduced his subject “Where was Colwyn” and said that so many people think only of Colwyn Bay and tend to forget about Old Colwyn which arouses strong feelings in him as he was born and bred in Old Colwyn.
He said that he had collected many artefacts about Old Colwyn for many years and
it is amazing what is available from E bay auctions. He produced two items of old
pottery which bore the oak tree emblem of Colwyn Bay. The legend on the coat of arms
is 'IECHYD HARDDWCH HEDDWCH' -
Patrick explained that in 1995 he wrote a short item about Colwyn for Country Quest Magazine.
From its earliest days Colwyn has been the name of the coastal strip between Penmaen Head and Rhos Point.
In the seventeen nineties Thomas Pennant arrived at Rhos Point and wrote “From Rhos Fynach the land recedes inwards and forms a pretty bay, the country slopes to the water’s edge with woods and cultivations. Penmaenrhos a great limestone rock juts into the sea at the end of the bay”.
Patrick then gave an insight into his research findings about the name Colwyn and its origins.
In 1334 there is a reference to the Ville or Township of of Coloyne
Through the years Colwyn has been known as Coloyne, Colwyn and Colwin.
The name Colwun appears in the Llanelian Parish Register in 1652.
The word Colwyn appears on two old gravestones, one at Llandrillo yn Rhos dated 1736 and the other at Llangystennin also dated 1736.
Some think that the name is a compound of the Welsh word cae, (Hollow, enclosed) and llwyn ( grove or bushes) from the deep brooks and encircling graves in the district.
Reference was also made to the Shepherds of Rhuallt, a farm at the bottom of Llysfaen Road. The sheep grazed the marsh lands along the coast known as Morfa Rhianedd. These shepherds sat on rocks that stuck out of the marsh land and looked after their sheep. At night the shepherds would gather their flocks and bring them to the safety of a large fold named Col yr Wynn.
In 1690, reference was made to Llysfaen being situated one and a half miles from Afon Golwyn. It therefore appears that Colwyn’s name originated from the stream which flows through Llawr Pentre to Beach Road. Colwyn must have taken its name from the stream not the other way round. There would have been a hamlet there in the 1690s. In 1685 when the Rural Dean visited, there were only 20 persons living in Colwyn.
As part of the Parish of Llandrillo yn Rhos in 1844, the Parish of Colwyn was formed. St Catherine’s Church had been built in 1837 as a Chapel of Ease to Llandrillo Church.
As the resort began to grow, It became fashionable for influential families to provide for themselves seaside homes to resort to in pleasant weather.
With the coming of the railway in 1848, a station was built and named Colwyn. Later a station was opened at Colwyn Bay. Strangers visiting the resort from Chester direction would often leave the train by mistake at Colwyn station, believing it to be Colwyn Bay. Because of this confusion, the Railway Company changed the name to Old Colwyn. For a short time Colwyn Bay was known as New Colwyn, there was much protest so the name was changed back to Colwyn Bay.
The Colwyn Bay Hotel was built in 1872 near the station to cater for holiday makers travelling by rail.
Up to 1875, Colwyn Bay had no official status except as the two parishes of Llandrillo yn Rhos and Colwyn in the rural district of Conway.
In 1877 it became developed enough to be considered a Local Government area of its own with a population of 2500.
By the 1900s, the population had increased to 8500.
In 1934 it became the Borough of Colwyn Bay with a population of 20,000. At this time it was the largest town on the North Wales coast.
In 1974 owing to Local Government reorganisation it became part of the much larger Borough of Colwyn, extending from Kinmel Bay to Penrhyn Bay and inland for 40 miles almost to Bala.
Colwyn Bay Civic Centre was the Headquarters of the area of 136,567 acres with a population of 46,000.
Since the completion of the A55 bypass, Colwyn Bay has changed vastly. Much has been done to put the “Old” back into Colwyn.
Patrick then said it was always Colwyn to him and his contemporaries never Old Colwyn. The boundaries are the Queens Hotel in the east to the Marine Hotel in the west.
It was isolated from Penmaenrhos, Llysfaen, Llanelian and Colwyn Bay. Today it has been absorbed by these and other outlying areas he said. Whilst the coast has remained similar to what it was in the 1790s, what has changed is the landscape which is covered by houses.
Patrick went on to mention a number of favourite places and people who have long since disappeared. The old watermill at Llawr Pentre has long since disappeared but the Afon Golwyn still flows down Beach Road to enter the sea at the Bay of Colwyn.
Patrick was born in Colwyn in 1948, his father being from Fairmount and his mother from Penmaenrhos. He was Christened and nurtured in the Sunday school at the Colwyn Methodist Church or Coy’s Church, as it was known after Mr McCoy a pioneer in the building of the Church, opened in 1909. He was present at the opening of the new Methodist Church Hall in Wynn Avenue and is mentioned on the plaque as a Methodist Minister.
He moved from Colwyn in 1985 but in a twist said that “he never left Colwyn” having happy memories of the area and his place of birth. Old Colwyn has haunted him over the years. It was for this reason to get it off his chest so to speak, that he was compelled to compile his book “Around Old Colwyn”.
He said that he would love to be back in Old Colwyn, as he loves the area but in another twist he added, that he does not want to be here in 2008; he wants to be back here in the 1950s and 1960s, in his youth. When he returns, he always expects (in his heart) for it to remain as it was then. He looks out for the same people and characters if only in imagination in some cases; the reason being, that it was a very happy time.
In those days Old Colwyn was a large village. People knew one another and there was a good community spirit. He remembered a poor but happy upbringing, born in the top flat, number 1 Princess Road, Old Colwyn, above Treleaven’s Bakery.
His earliest recollections are of the bake house cats fighting and making frightening loud noises in the early hours of the morning.
Other memories are of the bread tins rattling as they were filled with dough, put into the oven to bake and later emptied. He grew up with the smell of freshly baked bread and could not resist nibbling hot crispy crusts when he was big enough to go into the bake house.
Frank Treleaven –Jones and his wife managed the shop, their son Alan was the baker and the daughter Alwen worked in the office. Auntie Maggie Williams (from “Ivy Dean” in Rose Hill) also worked in the office. Joe and Barney were the bakers from Colwyn Bay. Mrs Whittall worked there also, she is turned 90yrs and lives in Wynncrest. The Treleaven telephone number was 5646 and in those days, the1950s, there was an automatic telephone exchange in Albert Road.
Treleaven’s had three full time delivery vans delivering bread and cakes daily. Tom Jones of Coed Coch Road drove in the rural areas of Betws yn Rhos and Llanfair Talhaiarn. Two smaller vans driven by Mr Lloyd from Llysfaen and a man called Wally delivered locally.
Occasionally, Patrick would be able to get a ride out into the country on one of the vans which was a treat and he has fond memories of playing in the bakery.
There were other shops that he remembers, Tom Parry the plumber and electrician and Holland Roberts the chemists and Hilda’s Hairdressers, opposite Calfaria Chapel, this is now a playschool.
There was Townsends newsagent next to Treleaven’s which is now Bank’s Newsagents. A shoe shop; Thomas the butcher; Lalla Thomas the ladies shop, E.B.Jones the grocer.
Bob Bananas green grocer and fishmonger, Bob did a lot with pantomimes in the Pier Pavilion, Patrick remembered.
Boots the Chemist was next; Joller Hughes the fish and chip shop; the Midland Bank on the corner of Cefn Road.
These shops were just a few of the ones in the village and Patrick mused that he would have to write another book.
He then went on to share some recollections and thought that such recollections might help some of the aims and objectives of the residents association to safeguard Old Colwyn for the future.
He began his education at Old Colwyn County junior mixed school in 1952 at four years
old in the nursery class. He remembered a great wooden rocking horse which in those
days was a real novelty. The children played in the mornings and in the afternoons
they all lay down on fold-
Miss Gwyneth Williams from Abergele was a teacher and Miss Lewis from Llanddulas. The head teacher was Miss Williams from Kensington Avenue; this lady had an Airedale terrier which she exercised around Min y Don park.
When he went to the Junior School, they would begin the day in the hall with an assembly led by Mr A.C.Davies the headmaster. The Head was a keen musician and formed a school choir which Patrick was pleased to be a member of.
If pupils eat all their dinner and had a penny, they were allowed to go out of school and along Chapel Street to its corner with Rosehill by the old Church School. Penny chews liquorice sticks and banana splits were favourites.
On the way home from school if pupils were lucky and still had a halfpenny left, they could go into the shop by the crossing on Abergele Road, Mr Allcock kept the shop and they could buy sweets there. They were helped across the zebra crossing by Mr Bennett the Lollipop man.
Two of the teachers from the Junior school are still alive, Miss Kirkham from Abergele and Mr Alun Jones who is in his 90s and until 2 yrs ago was associated with Ebenezer Chapel.
Old Colwyn County Junior mixed school was its official title and boys and girls sat on different sides of the classroom. There were separate playgrounds either side of the hall. Patrick chuckled as he recalled the boys peeping at the girls through the high metal segregating fence. It was a happy school and it was there that he began to take an interest in the history and culture and sociology of Old Colwyn. He produced an old scrap book bought for him by his mother and crammed full of articles mainly from the North Wales Weekly News of those days.
One of the first stories that he glued in was that of a concrete lamppost knocked down by a lorry at the top of Beach Road in 1954/5. The post came to rest against the National Milk Bar.
He now has a large collection of scrap books and collecting artefacts and information about Old Colwyn and the Colwyn Bay area became his hobby. With such a hobby comes a need for space. Together with his vocation as a Minister, he had about 5000 books at one time. He still collects old pictures and postcards and this can be expensive as some are very collectable. One postcard that he had bought cost £15.
He had nurtured an ambition for a number of years to write a short history of his childhood days in Old Colwyn during the 50s and 60s. He commented that it is not easy to find a publisher for local history books as they have a limited circulation. He was therefore advised to produce a book of old pictures and during the production, it was necessary to widen the area from Old Colwyn as it would have more general appeal in a greater area. The book covers Colwyn Bay and Rhos on sea. The book was dedicated to Old Colwyn Junior School where he learned to take an interest in the history of the area. He very much hopes that the book will enrich the collection of books about Colwyn which have been written by other authors. He would hope that it will inspire someone else to write another book in the future.
Patrick commented that history is being made every day and pictures of groups and events held by people are important. He asked that people record them carefully with names, dates and places and place them with local records offices or archives. He commented that as a result of his research, he is aware that so much of our local history has been lost.
He invited people present to take a trip back in time in their thoughts to Old Colwyn some 50 yrs ago. Say from Penmaenhead to the Marine Hotel. There was a very attractive oak boundary sign near what used to be Tanllwyfan Home for young children from Manchester. Eventually it became a home for young girls from broken homes. Local youths married some of these girls and set up home.
There was a large ornamental white seagull on top of the oak boundary sign and the coat of arms of Colwyn Borough with the oak tree with the motto which translates to Health Beauty and Tranquillity.
The boundary marker was there for many years and there was also one on the Mochdre side of Colwyn, A resident commented that one used to be by the Technical College.
Patrick went on to describe the London to Holyhead Road passing through Old Colwyn in those days and commented that there were an adequate number of public houses in Old Colwyn. Apart from the Queens Hotel, they are all still in business to his knowledge. There were an adequate number of shops on both sides of Abergele Road. He then made reference to a number of the shops to recall just how much of a thriving village Old Colwyn was in those days.
The largest shop was called Irwins opposite the Bethesda Chapel. There was a staff of 12 persons working there with the manager Bob Jones who lived in Tan Lan and died about four or five years ago. Patrick’s mother had worked there and he recalled a photograph of them in white overalls and hats.
There were three fish and chip shops, Joller Hughes, Bert Oldham’s (Bert was called Bert Moor because he kept pigs on Pentre Uchaf Farm). There was another fish and chippy between Church Walks and Rosehill, Chapel Street.
There was Treleaven’s Bakery. Opposite there was Cadwgan Bakery. There was a Bakery in Church Walks. There was the Marguerite Bakery on Beach Road. There were two Cooperative Shops one opposite the Marine Hotel, called Min y Don, there was the grocery one and a butchery one where Patrick had served as an errand boy for a while later being promoted to an errand boy in the grocery department, next to the English Baptist Chapel.
There was Pentre Isaf Dairy higher than the cooperative shop. There was Parciau Dairy opposite; there was Princess Road Dairy. At least three milk rounds in Old Colwyn.
There were adequate cafes in the village, the Mitre Café in Cefn Road run by Mr and Mrs Pugh. There was the Cosy Café next to Espley’s Butchers later to become Baxters Butchers on Cefn Road. There was the Arfon Café over a sweet shop and tobacconists on the Abergele Road. There was the National Milk Bar on Beach Road.
There were three chemists shops, Holland -
There were two hardware iron mongers, Gledhills in Cefn Road, he had a van and did a round taking paraffin and hardware around Old Colwyn. P.Gwyn Davies was another on Abergele Road near to the Ship Hotel.
Most people had coal fires in those days; there was a coal yard by the Old Colwyn Station, with a siding where the coal wagons arrived. There were four coal merchants, T.S Jones, William McGregor, William Ellis and Tom Williams. Each had a large shed and office at the station yard.
Patrick remembered Tom Williams carrying a hundredweight sack of coal on his back up two flights of stairs to the flat where he lived above Treleaven’s; later when they moved to Tan Lan he continued to deliver their coal, and in the early 1960s the price of a hundredweight of coal was eight shillings and six pence. In making the conversion to decimal currency Patrick remarked in a self deprecating comment that one of his teachers Mr Tudor Jones (Joss) who taught mathematics, had written on one of his reports, ‘He will never make a mathematician but he is a very likeable lad’.
He recalled the Supreme Cinema in Cefn Road, Mr Buckley was the manager and on Saturday mornings it was packed with children watching Tarzan, Walt Disney films and westerns for six pence with a bag of popcorn for three pence.
The cinema closed and became the Diamond Stylus tool factory until they moved to Mochdre when the shop became the Kwiksave Supermarket and later Somerfield.
There were newsagents, tobacconists, sweetshops, Gents and ladies hairdressers, Bert Poole was the barber in Cefn Road which Patrick went to for short back and sides. Clwyd Roberts who lived in Llandulas had a room in Hindley’s Newsagents, Beach Road and a red and white barber’s pole outside. Clwyd also repaired umbrellas.
There was a barber at the Newsagent opposite the Queens Hotel, with a pole outside.
The were several garages the Red Garage, Hancock’s Garage and M&Ks. Sid Hancock had a fleet of navy blue and cream coaches, that he kept at his garage on Coed Coch Road. He ran day tours and mystery tours in the summer months. His booking office was a shed on the corner of Berthes Road.
Patrick summed up by saying that Old Colwyn was very capable of sustaining itself without people having to go elsewhere. The bus ride to Colwyn Bay on a Saturday afternoon was a treat and a visit to Woolworths was a must visit.
It is surprising to look back and realise that there was a fleet of road sweepers which covered the whole of Old Colwyn on a weekly basis. It is sad to see the litter problems in all places these days. The very conscientious operatives who took pride in their work worked from a depot at the rear of the pumping station in Wellington Road. They were Will Newall, Christmas Williams, Jack Rhyl from Church walks, David Jones from Llysfaen, Howell (Fawr) Roberts. Each had a two wheeled truck with two dustbins on it, yard brush and shovel and a weeding implement for gutters and footpaths.
There were few litter bins in old Colwyn but there was never a problem with litter or chewing gum.
The green half round dust cart with sliding doors both sides, was driven around at 7am each morning, there were four dust men; Isaac Jones from Penmaenrhos, John Jones from Tan Lan, Johnny Conway from Pen y Bryn and Tom Thomas (Twm Twm) who came from Llysfaen. George Trow was the driver; the Trow family is a well known local family. The heavy bins were full of ashes from the coal fires. The men carried them on their shoulders and emptied them weekly. Protective clothing he recalled was a battered mackintosh and a hessian sack over their shoulders in the pouring rain.
The dust cart drew a trailer which was used for salvage, the forerunner of recycling, cardboard boxes from the shops, newspapers etc were put in the trailer and taken to a large shed near the Mochdre tip and sorted and sold. The Colwyn Borough Council would report in the local press each month how much it made from the salvage.
The Old Mill in Llawr Pentre was run by John Will Edwards as a scrap yard; he would take any metal items cycles, motor bikes, lawn mowers, cars, engines for a few shillings and they were taken away eventually for recycling.
Tommy “Irish” the blacksmith ran a Smithy in Pen y Bryn and he would sharpen an axes, knives and scissors for about two pence. He would repair metal gates or make new ones.
There was character called Clarence who lived in a flat in Victoria Road and he would walk up and down to Penmaenhead twice a day in his flat cap and long battered mac and was always looking in the gutter. He would often pick things up. He was picking up bolts nuts nails and put them in his bag at home. On bank holidays Clarence would sit in his window and count how many cars, buses and lorries had gone through. He would write it in a note book and show people.
The traffic was bumper to bumper on August Bank holiday on the old A55 through the village. There would be tailbacks from Abergele to OId Colwyn and the other way to Conway.
There were two well known window cleaners who kept the shops windows sparkling. Abner Davies was one and a chap called Lewie from Llandulas he is now over 90 yrs old. They had hand carts and ladders wash leathers and metal buckets.
At the back of Cadwgan road in a warehouse, Colwyn Bleach was made and bottled.
There were a number of allotments where keen gardeners could grow vegetables and flowers. The land at the side of the Methodist Church was used, the site of M&K was used and at the back of the garage; at the top of Fairmount, Princess Road, Plas Wylfa site, Min y Don Avenue bordering the railway embankment.
The Council owned gardens were much loved and well cared for. Two gardeners in particular Norman Roberts from Llysfaen and Glyn Jones from Tan Lan, kept Wynn gardens immaculate. The flowers were always in bloom and the lawns well trimmed. Wynn Gardens has been a haven of peace for generations, Patrick recalled. The men also looked after Cliff Gardens, Tan y Coed Gardens and Fairy Glen. They also looked after Min y Don Park including the busy bowling greens.
Children were always playing cricket or football on the beach. Two brothers from Station Road used to dig for bait and fish from the beach. One was nicknamed Hook nose and the other Cod nose. Shrimp nets and drag nets were used frequently. Night lines of baited hooks were also erected between poles on the beach. Mussels were gathered and eels were hunted with gaffs. Fishing was a very popular pastime.
Bill Parry the bricklayer would bring his fishing boat down to the beach.
Ned Jones used to bring his sailing boat from Llandulas to Raynes ICI Quarry jetty. He would bring it to the edge of the promenade and take people for trips into the bay.
It was a busy promenade; the ice cream kiosk was busy. The deck chair attendant was always busy. The band played concerts on summer evenings.
There were always two or three quarry boats moored waiting for the tide to Penmaen and Llandulas quarries.
Looking down from Penmaenhead in those days the sea was always orange from piped water used to wash the limestone after it had been crushed at the ICI Quarry.
Sundays in Old Colwyn was a quiet day, the park was out of bounds and the swings were locked up. Most people would walk to Church or Chapel. The roads were packed with people coming and going in “bible black”.
In the afternoon scores of children went to their Sunday school, sometimes on the grass on warm days.
Youth Clubs were run and also Sunshine Corner in the gospel hall in Beach Road which was frowned upon by some respectable people but Patrick used to go there and enjoyed it. Uncle Albert played the accordion and ukulele with Auntie Peggy who helped him with the proceedings.
The YMCA was in Beach Road and the Churchman’s Club for adults to play billiards and snooker. The St John’s Church House was very busy then also, with concerts or dances. Drama societies and guilds were attended. The Urdd was very strong for Welsh speakers. Brownies, Guides, Cubs and Scouts also the St Johns Ambulance Cadets, run by officers, Mr Eric Swindells from Tan Lan and Derek Hart.
Patrick said that it is always good to look back on happy days of the past and maybe we can learn from our past but we need to move on and society has changed, not always for the best.
He welcomed the fact that there were police officers present in the meeting and reflected that the bobby on the beat has gone, not the fault of individual officers.
In the 50s and 60s he remembered Constable Gordon Bradshaw who lived in a police house opposite the Marine Hotel. He would check premises every night of the week between 10pm and 11pm. Cheeky and unruly youths were always caught by Constable Bradshaw. There was never any need for ASBOs. He commented that he thought society has gone soft and silly.
Ministers were an important part of the community; family doctors had time to visit people in the home. He remembered the Old Surgery in Abergele Road, Dr Parry Hughes, Dr Aneurin Evans, and his son Dr Aled Evans. He commented, if you wanted sympathy, you went to one and if you wanted action you went to the other.
Patrick reflected that community spirit is fast disappearing, people are more independent, less likely to commit to joining any form of organisation. He continued, “As one who thinks so much of Old Colwyn, I would like to thank you as members of Old Colwyn East Residents Association for your contribution and enthusiasm to improve the amenities and the environment for the benefit of all Old Colwyn residents. Your work up to now is much appreciated and may it prosper and long continue for without your efforts, Old Colwyn would be a poorer place. Thank you for listening so patiently.
Patrick was thanked for his very informative and enjoyable talk by the Chair Richard Poynton. There was a round of applause which was well deserved.
