Old Colwyn East Residents’ Association Open Meeting
14th November 2007
Minute of an address by Mr Mark Hewlett, the Property Director of ALDI, regarding the proposed ALDI store in Old Colwyn
Mr Hewlett started by introducing himself as the property director for ALDI for this part of the UK. It is his job to buy sites, build stores and get planning consent with a view to keeping the company profitable.
He handed out plans of the proposed store
West face of the store
North Face of the store
East face of the store
South service bay elevation
He introduced his companion Mr Rhys Davies from CDN Planning, Conwy a firm which represents ALDI throughout North Wales. Mr Davies will deal with this application as it goes through the planning process. Mr Davies is a fluent Welsh speaker and this was offered as a facility if anyone wished to speak in Welsh.
Mr Hewlett appreciated that this application had caused a lot of local interest and a few concerns and said that it is his philosophy when coming to an area to interact and communicate with local action groups as early as possible in the process.
He appreciated that ALDI has bought the site but he said without the help of the community, it is not easy to get the site open. He wished to interact with the Association to let everyone know what is going on at the site.
He noted that the site had belonged for a long time to M&K, it has been a successful and viable business and said that people are probably sad to see it go. He appreciated that and takes those concerns on board; when he spoke to Mr Meredith at length over the purchase of his site, it did upset him to move out but it was his decision and the decision came at the right time for both Mr Meredith and ALDI.
He turned to the plans and said that the copy plans that he had circulated would give people an idea of what the site will look like architecturally, together with some artist’s impressions. The plans were more detailed than those submitted for planning. There are some slight changes particularly the highway. He offered to answer any questions at the end of his presentation, if unable to reply he would take the questions away and reply through the committee.
Mr Hewlett offered an insight into ALDI, their operating principles and who they are as people. ALDI is still a private company owned by the German Albrecht family, the company began in Germany in the 1950s, its beginnings were in a small corner shop. It now has 7000 stores worldwide from America and Australia, through Europe.
The company’s business principles have always been the same from day 1. In the UK the company has ambitious expansion plans, it presently has 350 stores with an ambition to grow to near 1000 stores by 2020.
It has always been company philosophy and principle to develop high quality, competitively priced, own-brand products. The company does not stock branded lines as found in the large multiples. The buying team are tasked with developing a product that is as good if not better than the leading brand so it is unnecessary to stock branded lines. This allows the company more freedom in developing its own products.
As a food store in areas such as Old Colwyn the company does not necessarily compete to put other small businesses out of business. That is not the company aim. The aim of ALDI is to complement the area and act as a draw to get people to come back into the village. Abergele and Prestatyn and Rhyl are places that ALDI have worked in before. The store does not sell newspapers, cigarettes; there is no in-store butchers, bakers, fishmongers, photo services or any of the other town centre killing spin offs that tend to happen with the larger multiples. That is not ALDI business.
On top of that due to the nature of their business, because ALDI tends to have smaller stores in more local areas, the staff employed are predominately all taken from the local community. That has two spin offs, 1. Economically, jobs are created locally and 2. ALDI likes to think of itself as a friendly food store and the staff generally know the people who shop in the store, making for a happy local store environment.
As part of the development process, ALDI always ensures that it communicates regularly in line with the Local Authority, development plans are always carried out in conjunction with them. Any conditions which are attached to particular planning consents are carried out. Where possible ALDI tries not to ignore what local people say, where there are concerns from neighbours, those are taken on board and where possible the concerns are incorporated into the development plans. ALDI listens to people and has an excellent track record, throughout North Wales and the UK for integrating into local communities.
Regarding the Bay View Centre in Colwyn Bay, it is the company plan to exit that store and that is why it has bought the site in Old Colwyn. Where possible, ALDI likes to buy the land and own the land as a freehold opportunity. Alongside that ALDI wants to develop food stores that are spacious, easily accessible, bright, vibrant and modern looking stores. Prior to negotiating the leasehold at the Bay View shopping centre, ALDI undertook a survey of the area in 2003. They could not find any other sites at that time and the Bay View was the best possible opportunity. Following what has been an extensive redevelopment of the ALDI product range, with an increase in frozen products in particular, the Colwyn Bay store has been outgrown. Hence why ALDI sought other premises and is seeking to develop a standard ALDI store in Old Colwyn. It will be good looking and will have plenty of car parking spaces for people to shop as and when they choose.
The jobs at Bay View will be transferred over to Old Colwyn if planning consent is given. Because the store will be slightly bigger, and hopefully busier, it is hoped to create at least five more additional jobs for people from within the area.
Development timescales are limited by ALDI to minimise undesirable side effects such as antisocial behaviour and damage on the site. If planning consent is given it is intended to open the store in summer 2008 by July.
Mr Hewlett thanked the meeting for listening; he then invited people to look at the plans and offered to answer any questions that people had.
Resident You say they are own brands, where are they produced in Germany or the UK?
Answer It is a mixture of the two; it is not just Germany it is throughout Europe as well. Where ALDI has brands that are generic throughout the portfolio of stores, there will be a central producer somewhere, UK, Spain, France, America. All local fresh produce is sourced from the UK and because of expansion throughout Wales; there will be a Welsh-specific range.
Resident I see you have 71 car parking spaces, do the staff park in those 71 spaces and would you allow people to park in there and shop in Old Colwyn?
Answer Yes the staff will park there and as part of the planning process, negotiation will take place and that car park will remain open, free for a certain amount of time, yet to be determined.
Resident Where will your lorries park to unload?
Answer They will park on the site, Mr Hewlett pointed out on the plan where the lorries will park at the loading bay on the south side of the premises. He also explained that there is only one delivery a day, with no off site parking.
Resident What size is your lorry?
Answer It is a standard forty foot HGV.
Resident What time do they come in the day or at night?
Answer It depends on what restrictions are placed on the application, if there are no restrictions whatsoever, we can deliver when we want, with it being a residential area, I imagine there will be restrictions so we will then deliver in the day. That question cannot be answered at this stage.
Resident Can we make representations and influence these restrictions?
Answer The planning application is open at the moment and it is in the consultation period
Mr Rhys Davies added that the council will send out letters to the local residents and there will be a 21day consultation period.
Resident How local is local residents?
Mr Davies They will have to notify the people living in the immediate vicinity of the site, I am sure they will put a sign up near the site as well and they will put it in the local paper. The planners have asked us for additional details on drainage and a couple of extra things, now they have got those I am sure that consultation period will be happening within the next couple of weeks.
Resident Do you usually deliver in the middle of the night?
Mr Hewlett Where we are able to, yes but obviously we will have to comply with planning restrictions, most stores which are in residential or close to residential properties will have restrictions on them. To answer the question No if there is a restriction, yes if there is no restriction.
Resident I have just had a valuation survey on my property which is directly behind the proposed ALDI store and the value of the property has dropped already, I just wondered how ALDI felt about that and what they are going to do?
Mr Hewlett Obviously that is… very specific to your specific property, I don’t know who carried out that valuation and how they have come to that conclusion, I don’t know. What I would like to say about that is that the building that is currently in front of your property would be significantly less attractive than ours. Really there is not an awful lot I can say about that, other than the fact that the survey is very subjective. I don’t know who undertook that, how it was valued I don’t know. I would like to look at it in more detail if you would not mind and if you could send the contact details of the person who undertook that evaluation, I have no problem talking to them.
Mr Davies I am not sure whether the plans at the time that you had the valuation done, whether those plans were in the public domain. The actual store sits very low on the site.
The resident It was, because of the proposed plans it had dropped the value of the property.
Mr Davies It may be worth while checking as to whether they assessed it in relation to these specific plans because I am not sure that they would have been aware.
The resident I think it was just because there was a proposed supermarket to be built right next door to my house.
The Chair Relating to deliveries, I am not trying to be pro-supermarket obviously but M&K took deliveries from 5am in the morning constantly six days a week. There are obviously going to be restrictions but when M&K were there they took deliveries from 5am.
Resident Will ALDI be applying for a liquor licence?
Answer Yes
The resident Do all ALDI stores have a liquor licence?
Answer They do
The resident Do you have a strict policy on serving under 18s?
Answer We have a policy called Challenge 21; anyone who looks under 21 will be asked for I/D to prove that they are over 18; that is the standard policy in all our stores in UK. So Yes we do, any staff that are found to serve under age people are disciplined and dealt with internally because we have a very strict policy about that.
A Resident asked a question about the fact that 71 car parking spaces would encourage many cars to use the site and he was concerned about ALDI’s carbon footprint on the environment.
Mr Hewlett respectfully pointed out that the site was previously a car saleroom and garage which would have significantly added to any carbon footprint on the site. To answer the specific point about carbon footprint, the manner in which the buildings are constructed, due to the nature of the business, ALDI works on very tight profit margins, they are economically and environmentally very friendly already.
He said that information can be provided to anyone who wishes to see it on how the stores are put together, what materials are used. Carbon footprint is not something that ALDI do as a business but the systems within the store due to the nature of the business have to be economical and are therefore environmentally very friendly, as is. The refrigeration equipment runs using the latest modern technology and environmentally friendly gas is used in the refrigeration systems. He offered to provide that kind of information if the questioner required to see it.
Mr Davies The 71 car parking spaces, The planning application is supported by a transport assessment which does not only deal with the amount of cars coming in to and out of the site. It also deals with sustainability and addresses the way the store can be accessed by pedestrians who are not using the car as well. There will be improvements to the scheme, there are improvements proposed at the moment for an improved crossing point on Abergele Road.
Mr Hewlett details of how many people and cars will visit are all contained in our transport assessment which is a public document.
A resident spoke about school children passing daily in both directions and thought that this development may possibly endanger them.
Mr Hewlett In order to justify the application ALDI has to go through the Highways Authority. If they felt that the proposal was unjust and generated too much traffic with dangerous traffic manoeuvres, approval would not be granted. It is up to the experts at Local authority to tell ALDI if the proposal is safe.
Resident What are your opening hours?
Mr Hewlett Not set as yet as that is part of the consultation process. We like to open between 9am and 8pm Monday to Friday; 8am to 6pm on Saturday; 11amto 4pm or 10am to 5pm on Sunday depending on what the local authority say. We are not 24 hours opening.
Resident Where will the bins be located?
Answer The bins will be located at the delivery port. Just to explain a bit because it can be a problem with other food stores. We do have BIFFA bins which are completely sealed and padlocked. The bins are caged in with no activity around the bin area. We employ the likes of Rentokil to survey our stores regularly and any vermin attracted to the bins would be eradicated straight away. Bins are collected frequently, every other day depending on how busy the store is.
Resident What about noise from refrigeration?
Answer Again refrigeration is part of the consultation process. ALDI uses low noise refrigeration plant located externally.
A resident made a point about lorries refrigeration systems causing a noise as well as the noise of loading and unloading and that this could be a problem.
Mr Hewlett It is all depending on the restrictions placed upon the application. If the LA don’t allow deliveries during the hours of darkness then that will not be a problem.
A resident You have explained that the Colwyn Bay store has outgrown itself. The footprint of the new store is maximising the area that you have got. What is the shelf life for the Old Colwyn site?
Answer For ever basically. We feel that once we have found a location such as this with it being a site that we own with a freehold opportunity we would like to think that we can trade for as long as we possibly want to. I don’t see the company having any aspirations to move from here, should it be successful.
The resident So restrictions on the site are not particularly important?
Answer We cannot extend this store, it won’t happen, the footprint we have is what we would wish for. This one is 250 square metres bigger than the Colwyn Bay store. We can’t extend at Colwyn Bay and we don’t own it anyway. Rest assured we would like to think we would stay here for as long as everyone would like us to.
A resident pointed to the fact that to level the site will be an undertaking and asked what precautions will be taken to minimise dust, and dirt getting on the road etc.
Answer As part of the ALDI construction process all those types of issues will be dealt with. Water bowsers are employed to keep dust down. Site traffic leaving the site … a road sweeper is employed to clean up after them. Just to demonstrate, what ALDI has done already to prepare and look after the site… rest assured that we do what we can and we like to think we are clean and tidy.
A resident pointed out that on the east side, the roof appeared low and asked what precautions were in place to prevent burglary.
Answer without the architect here I cannot answer that point specifically. There are railings along that elevation. I will come back to you on that one.
Councillor Glyn Jones You mention that you are going to sell liquor at the store…there is an issue with liquor generally in this country now… the binge drinking… the cost of it. Do you see liquor being a major part of your sales and are you going to compete price wise with people like Tesco and Asda who are selling lager at twenty pence a pint. It worries me that you are going to enter that market.
Answer The alcohol range that we sell is not aimed at the binge drinking market. Obviously we do sell alcoholic fruity drinks but we certainly don’t undercut those to aim at the younger market. The wine range that we have got is excellent and continually wins awards from people who like to drink wine recreationally with a meal. We have our own range of alcohol so it’s not a case of us selling Smirnoff or Boddingtons or Stella. It is ALDI produced, so we are not aiming to capture the youth market and sell alcohol cheaply.
Question How cheap is it?
Answer You can get a very good bottle of wine for £4; Lager is 85 to 90pence a tin. A six pack of European lager about £3.79. It is middle of the road on cost.
Resident returning to the parking issue, how many places will be taken up by staff.
Answer We like to think that we will employ ten staff with an extra 5 because of the move, so 15; At any one time on the busiest days there will be 6 staff in at any one time. Staff are employed on flexible employment terms allowing for instance single mothers to work to work 5 or 3 hours a day. We will have a larger payroll than is represented in the store at any one time. Because the staff are employed locally a lot of them walk or get the bus.
Question Do you have any plans for the plot that M&K owns on the other side of the road. There were thoughts you might open a fuel station.
Answer I can categorically say we have no interest in that property. It is owned by Mr Meredith.
Councillor Cossey introduced two people who live in the first house in Bodelwyddan Avenue. He added where the lorry is going to unload, is there any way that the store can be made larger, so that that area is shorter?
Answer At this stage I would have to say no, the plans that we have submitted are what we hope to get planning permission for. What I can say is that we will probably be adopting significant acoustic measures to keep the noise down as much as possible.
You will appreciate there will be a significant retaining wall there because your house sits significantly higher than ours does. This also will act as a noise barrier. The frequency of wagons coming in and out of there is minimal compared to other food store operators. I would like to think that the dialogue that we have had today gives you some kind of indication of how we wish to continue. My people have been in touch with you.
The Chair The impression ALDI have created from the start as far as looking after the site has been excellent.
A Resident who lives next door to the car park was concerned that her property is not overlooked at present and asked how high the wall was between her property and the car park.
Mr Hewlett pointed out that she would not be overlooked by the car park after the development but could not tell her without checking how high the proposed wall will be he said that he would contact the lady with the information.
Councillor Cowans as part of the planning process there is a term called linkage, I just wondered if you feel that you could contribute something towards the village, rather than just building a store there?
Mr Hewlett Yes usually it is part of these particular applications the section 106 contribution. We don’t know if that is going to come up or not or whether Rhys has any more information on that? That usually is a contribution to some kind of community use. We do and would consider such contributions as part of the proposal so if anyone has any proposals they would like to put forward, we would consider those. Usually its dealt with as part of the planning process, we will see what comes up.
A resident questioned the erection of hoarding around the site which is actually on the pavement.
Answer This is a normal process and is done by means of a pavement licence which the construction department has obtained.
Resident going back to the car park, I am a little surprised to see that people leaving their cars have got to walk across the main access road to get into to the store. Now I think that is particularly relevant to the disabled.
Mr Hewlett Yes, I think those plans have been updated somewhat…
Mr Davies There have been slightly changed, there are issues that have changed outside the site….an extra crossing; inside the site there will be a better defined crossing area.
Mr Hewlett Yes as part of our highways and transport assessment, not only does it relate to roads outside of the site but it also relates to internal and estate roads and I can assure you that there will be better accessibility routes on the actual development should it get consent, than what is demonstrated on this drawing.
The Resident You don’t actually show any pedestrian pathways.
Mr Hewlett Not at present, all that I can say on here there is tactile and drop paving for the visually impaired but other than that I will admit that on this drawing it is pretty vague.
A resident raised an issue about young people waiting outside stores to ask others to buy drink for them.
Mr Hewlett appreciated the concerns expressed but reiterated about the “challenge 21” policy of the company taking it very seriously. Anyone over 18 yrs can buy alcohol.
The Chair interceded and stated that with respect to the questioner we already have that problem in the village The problem is with bigger well known brands and we are sorting that out; he did not think that the questioner could put blame on ALDI who haven’t even opened yet..
Mr Hewlett What I can try and do is try to allay your concerns and fears. The people that we employ are responsible, respectable people.
Sergeant Chow Has there been any consultation with the police architectural liaison officer at all.
Mr Hewlett That will happen as part of the planning process.
Sergeant Chow They would employ “Secure by Design” to try and minimise antisocial behaviour.
Mr Hewlett Where possible my experience is that most of our stores get Secure by Design at presentation from the local police authority.
Chair So what is the next move are you going for planning now?
Mr Hewlett Yes, as it stands now, the site is owned, Rhys and his team are working on planning going through, in consultation with the people there and it will probably be some time before we hear anything.
Chair Would you be able to leave some cards behind especially for those who live nearby, who may want to discuss issues with you?
Mr Hewlett That is no problem at all.
A resident asked if the Colwyn bay store was profitable in view of the comment that it was outgrown. He had noted that it was quiet.
Mr Hewlett said that he would not want to discuss profit; it is not one of the busiest stores. It is average in terms of business. It is a quiet store and accessibility is not good. Customers have complained that there are no spaces on surface level, it is impossible to park. Customers have said they are not prepared to go underground for parking. This evening for instance, the underground car park was empty and he could not get a park upstairs.
The resident continued hypothetically asking if in future Old Colwyn was as quiet as Colwyn Bay would they have plans to leave.
Mr Hewlett I have not thought that far ahead and neither has the company, ALDI is extremely excited about trading in Old Colwyn. It is a fantastic area, it is busy, it is vibrant and there are no plans to move. He thought that it would be above average turnover and it is his job to put stores in areas where they will be viable and successful.
The Chair ~ Thank you very much for coming out to speak to us and for being open with us about ALDIs intentions.
There was a round of applause.
