Old Colwyn (East) Residents’ Association
Minute of Address by David Jones MP for Clwyd West on 9th August 2006
David Jones MP opened his address by expressing his delight at being present at the meeting. He said that his intention was not to address the meeting at length because he wanted to hear the concerns of residents so that he could take them back with him. He hoped that residents would use him as a channel to get things done further down the line which is his purpose.
He expressed his attachment to Old Colwyn and the Association in particular via an email interface with the secretary, who keeps him updated with local concerns and pictures of the church garden in all seasons.
He paid tribute to Cliff Prout, the secretary of the Environment Federation, present at the meeting who he said was not only involved with St John’s but also with St Cynbryd’s Church in Llanddulas, a project which is also very impressive. He drew attention to the fact that he has recently written in the Pioneer saying that what is happening in these churches is a wonderful thing because it is restoring them to the centre of the community, where they belong and where they have not been for some time.
He said that he was aware of some local concerns but reminded residents that he has an office in Llewelyn Road, Colwyn Bay which is staffed every working day from 9am to 1pm, by a lady called Jean Owen. He asked that people keep in touch with him through his office as he is a facility for constituents. If there are any concerns which need to be raised at a Parliamentary level or about administration then they should be addressed through him and he will do what he can to make sure that they are addressed.
He then opened the floor to questions, for people to air their concerns about those issues which concerned them, to enable an even more pleasant community in Old Colwyn.
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· A Resident asked about the Rainbow Bridge which has been closed for several weeks because of serious vandalism, vandals have ripped up paving slabs from the bridge steps and thrown them over onto the expressway below. So many local people used that bridge for walks on footpath 44 and now it is permanently closed until further notice.
David Jones replied that he would take the matter up with the Highways Authority
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· A Resident told Mr. Jones that she lives in Endsleigh Road, Old Colwyn and is having a problem with a dispute with the Conwy County Borough over her Council Tax revaluation. Mr. Jones quickly discovered that the resident had not put a formal appeal in to the Council but was seeking to argue her case by writing to the Council, which was not having the desired effect. The Council had picked a similar house which they had valued at £88,000 which she said was totally unrealistic.
David Jones replied that the Council may well have taken the valuation through from Land Registry returns, usually used as comparable evidence. The District Valuer will take evidence about a house which has been sold. He went on to say that the important issue is, that it may not be a comparable house with the houses that it is being used as a baseline for.
He continued to say that he always suggests to people in similar situations that they should appeal formally if they are concerned about their tax band.
He pointed out that in Wales; we have had re-banding as well as revaluation, an exercise that they are not carrying out in England. Wales was used as a test-bed for the device. When the Government realised how deeply unpopular it was, they stopped it for England but they have not reversed it for Wales.
The Resident was advised to use the appeals procedure and if there were several people and properties involved, it may be worthwhile getting professional advice from a chartered surveyor, who can come up with alternative comparable evidence as they are used to negotiating with the District Valuer. In such circumstances the surveyor may come up with a deal.
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· A Resident raised a point about the general question of Council Tax. He stated that he is a pensioner and over the last ten years, the pension has increased by 35%, an annual average of 3.5%
Over the same time Council Tax has gone up 118%, an annual average of 11.8%.
Included in that amount is the Police Precept which has increased 260%, an annual average of 26%.
About four years ago, the Chief Constable asked for a substantial increase to provide area Beat Managers and this was granted to him. He said that this was an additional level of policing that would be available.
He went on to say that we have two CBMs in old Colwyn and he paid tribute to the sergeant from Colwyn Bay for his deployment of them. The fact is he said, on the ground, we have seen no additional police involvement at all compared to 10 years ago. The Chief Constable has now said that he wants an additional £3 million to deal with terrorism and major crime. It seems to be a little late for him to decide that this is a major priority, when his first priority appears to be social issues, such as School Liaison Officers, Hotel Liaison Officers, Family Liaison Officers, instead of getting officers to front line policing. The resident concluded by asking what the views of David Jones and other Members of Parliament are to general policing in this day and age.
David Jones spoke of his awareness of concerns about policing locally because of information from the secretary. He also said that he had read a file of papers prepared by the Association and he was aware of the levels of concern.
He started by saying that he is not an expert on policing but his own view is that there is no substitute for police officers on the ground. He acknowledged the officers present at the meeting but said that his own opinion is that there has been too much of a swing in favour of Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs), who to use the words of the Deputy Chief Constable, have 10% of the powers of police officers and cost 90% of the salary.
He said that he agreed entirely with the questioner, he is concerned about the level of spending on protective services in North Wales. There has been a large debate going on over the last few months on the question of protective services and this was the reason why it was proposed by the Home Office that there should be Police amalgamations not just in Wales but throughout the country. In Wales to the extent that there would be an amalgamation of the four Welsh Police Forces into one super-force. This was a proposal which David Jones said he had opposed very strongly and rightly so, in Parliament.
His opinion is that policing should be accountable at a local level, not to a Chief Constable in Bridgend or some other place that they may make the Headquarters for an all-Wales Force. That proposal has now been scrapped; it has cost about £1.5million to carry out the feasibility study. There may be officers cloistered away in Llandrindod Wells still talking about the project although it seems a vacuous thing to do. A bill has been submitted for over £300,000 by North Wales Police Authority to the Home Office, quite rightly to recoup the money which has been mis-spent.
He intimated that he agreed entirely with the questioner about policing priorities. The policing priorities are those of people who feel concerned about walking down the high street of their towns and villages after dark. Those are the concerns of real people, he said, people who do not feel safe in their own communities.
David Jones paid tribute to Gary Kelly (the Sgt present at the meeting) and said that his officers do a tremendous job. There are not sufficient police officers. There is not sufficient support coming from the centre (government). There are mixed priorities and misapplied priorities. The police precept is another form of stealth taxation, levied at a local level, as of course is council tax generally. The reason is purely and simply to avoid a headline increase in income tax, which there would otherwise have to be.
As a result there are pensioners, who every year dread the council tax demand because it is another form of taxation but it is a regressive form of taxation, because it hits those more who are least able to afford it.
The answer is therefore that it is not a local issue at all. It is actually a national issue; it is a question of the National Government using local taxation as a means of bolstering revenue generally. More and more obligations are being sent to Local Authorities and more and more expenditure being sought from Local Authorities.
He went on to say that policing which is a national issue nowadays is being paid for largely by Local Authorities. We should be reassessing priorities and funding should be coming from the centre and not the local purse.
· The Chair added that the Town hall chiefs were talking about raising more money through Council tax to pay for immigrants.
David Jones replied that just last week, one local authority had estimated that there would have to be an increase of 6% to pay for the additional cost of immigration. That has been disputed. It is probably quite right, it is suggested that immigration is something that is self-financing. It is not so, it does put an terrific extra strain on local infrastructure, education, health services and so on and which has to be paid for. So 6% is a figure that has been mooted. It will be disputed but it would be surprising if immigration did not have a cost.
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· The secretary said that one issue which bothered him going back a couple of months is the issue of the Deputy Prime Minister and all the sleaze that came out of that issue, all the revelations and although he lost some of his responsibilities, he kept all his money and his perks and he is still there. One wonders why he is still there. It is known that he is very important to Mr. Blair. The secretary said that it worries him that things like that go on in Government and yet they expect members of the public to act with propriety.
David Jones replied that the secretary was tempting him to be party political and after some thought he decided to reply. He continued that John Prescott’s position of importance is not within Government, it is within the Labour Party. He is Deputy Prime Minister but is also Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.
Frankly, his behaviour has been absolutely disgraceful; it is nonsensical to pretend that it is a private matter, because the lady he had an affair with was his employed civil servant.
He abused his position of power. Under the last Conservative Government, had he behaved in that manner, he would have been dismissed and had he not, there would have been such a clamour for his resignation, and he would have been forced to go.
When he goes, he will inevitably resign his position as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. If he does that then under the terms of the Party Constitution, there will have to be an election for a new Deputy Leader within 3 or 4 months which will undoubtedly trigger pressure on Tony Blair, because they will take the opportunity for a leadership election. Tony Blair does not want to leave just yet. It is thought that he wants to see 10 years in power.
It is therefore nothing to do with Government but has everything to do with the internal politics of the Labour Party and that is why John Prescott is still there. It does seem an extraordinary situation. He is drawing his salary, getting the perks of office and doing nothing at all. In fact it would not be quite so bad if he was doing nothing at all but because Tony Blair is out of the country at the moment, he is actually in charge of the country. His finger is on the nuclear button.
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· A Resident spoke of recycling, a matter about which she is increasingly concerned. She said that she is aware that she can take her rubbish down to Berthes Road car park to put her articles into separate bins but that is all. In England they have it organised with separate bins and we have nothing.
David Jones replied that it is getting better but we are lagging a long way behind. He mentioned that he is the Chair of the Parliamentary Sustainable Waste Group; he does have an interest in recycling. He replied to the questioner that she was right, there are parts of the country where they are doing a lot better job.
He had been to a lecture recently by a lady who was a Council leader from Kent and they are way ahead with separate recycling bins, they encourage and make it easy for people to recycle. He said that it is all very well to have communal recycling points but this does not help the elderly or disabled.
The questioner interjected or “if people are lazy”, mentioning that people leave articles out that the bin lorry will not take and leave it out week after week. She thought such people should be fined.
Mr Jones replied he believed that it should be far easier to recycle to accommodate all types of people.
He said that we have only just had plastics recycling which has been going on for a long time in other parts. Most plastics are however shipped to China to be incinerated which is not ecologically friendly.
That is one of the things that associations such as ours can do, he said. Lobby the local authority that they should provide recycling. He also pointed out that there are decisions to be made, possibly people would have to pay a little more for separate bins; it has got to be paid out of the council tax.
The questioner interjected and referred to a talk that the association was given in September 2004 about what would happen in the recycling programme, what boxes would be distributed, what would happen with tins, jars and papers. The scheme was to be rolled out in September 2005 but has not reached the Village yet.
David Jones continued by saying that in Cheshire, they have a weekly garden waste collection and have had it for five years or more.
The resident interjected that there is CREST COOPERATIVE and you can ring them and pay them to take garden rubbish away but some people are not conscientious enough to do that.
David Jones continued to press his thoughts that it should be made easier for people to recycle in order to accommodate all types of people, even the lazy ones who perhaps would not then be so untidy.
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· The Secretary told the MP that three months ago, the Association wrote to Kelvin Dent, the Clerk and Monitoring Officer of the Police Authority, to take issue with the fact that police officers are being taken off the front line to go into the Operations Room in St Asaph.
He mentioned that in March 2004 the Association had written a letter to the Police Authority which included a section about the move to St Asaph for the Central Custody Station. That had no effect. People are now being taken to St Asaph in custody and officers are making often two or three often long journeys to St Asaph in respect of each prisoner. We hear that taxi fares are being paid to take prisoners to Rhyl after being arrested and released, so that they can return home. That is a cost to the taxpayer All these issues should have been properly researched and costed before the move to centralisation.
Now officers off the front line are manning the Communications Room at Asaph. The Police Federation has made comment about the fact that there was little consultation in the process. The public is suffering because there are no people in the vicinity of St Asaph who can do the job. Those issues should have been properly dealt with before the move was made.
The Association had written a letter to protest about the issue and he asked the MP if he would back the association in their argument, that they should have a reply to their letter.
David Jones replied that he would do so.
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· A Resident said that we had talked about the impact of Council tax but the biggest damage since the change of Government has been the damage done to funded pensions and he asked whether Conservative MPs have plans to restore the position that we were in before Gordon Brown became Chancellor, for instance the tax on dividends which amounts to £5billion per year. This has ruined the pension schemes in this country and a lot of firms have closed their funded pension schemes as a result.
David Jones replied that the pensions issue is the biggest domestic issue that this country faces; he agreed with the questioner that in European terms, this country had one of the best funded pension systems probably in the world.
That is no longer the case; the reason primarily is that back in 1997 the Chancellor decided to abolish advance corporation tax relief on dividends in the hands of pension funds. That immediately eroded confidence in the pensions industry and what was even worse, destroyed the value of pensions, because about £45 billion has been taken out of pension funds which would otherwise have been available for the use of pensioners.
That is a enormous amount of money and David Jones said that he could glibly say that Conservatives intend to restore tax relief, but he said the problem is that the Government has incurred such enormous spending commitments for this and any successive Government.
It will not be an easy thing to try and recoup the funds that have been applied out of the pension funds for other purposes. It simply cannot be done.
The answer is that we must look at the whole question of pensions again. Lord Turner’s Report on Pensions came out last year and the recommendations are being considered by the Government. There is a battle going on at present between the Prime Minister and the Chancellor as to whether and to what extent Lord Turner’s report should be implemented. What is certain is that people are going to have to be encouraged and if necessary made to save more money for their futures.
It cannot be done at one fell swoop and what it actually means that there is a generation of people in this country who have had their pensions destroyed and it is as serious as that.
The Conservatives are currently examining the issue of pensions in a broad policy review but simply put, this is the biggest domestic issue in the country which if it is not addressed quickly, two generations of people will be reduced to poverty as a result of the tax on pension funds.
The issue will probably involve an element of compulsion and encouragement and will probably involve persons working for longer with a pensionable age of 67 to 70yrs not too far away. It is already happening for people working in the public sector. Local Government employees are being told that they have to work longer than National Civil Servants which causes resentment. It is a massive social problem and he said it was a shameful thing to raid the pension funds because pensions have always been marketed as a tax free investment vehicle with 100% tax relief on contributions and in the hands of the pension funds, any income generated would be free of tax. This action has destroyed company pension funds in particular and the stock market has flat-lined now for years and cannot get back above 6000. It is devastating.
The secretary interjected to ask why the man who raided the funds of the pensions industry is being pushed by the Labour Party as the next Prime Minister. What is the next thing he is going to do?
David Jones replied that it was an interesting question. He felt that he will undoubtedly become the next Prime Minister of this country; it seems that the dispute in the press is who is going to replace John Prescott as deputy Prime Minister. The suggestion is Peter Hain.
The secretary continued to say that Gordon Brown must have known what the outcome would be when he raided the pension funds.
David Jones replied that in 1996 the Labour Party made a commitment not to increase Conservative Spending Commitments for two years and also not to increase the level of income tax. Tony Blair made that commitment and they have not raised income tax but every other tax you can think of has been increased. Fuel duty is far higher than any other country, certainly in Western Europe. National Insurance contributions have increased which is regarded apparently as not being a tax on income but it is a tax on income equivalent to 2pence in the pound. They have to find taxes from all quarters to maintain their spending plans. They could not increase income tax so pension funds were the obvious solution. They also had the windfall taxes. The overall tax-take has gone up in the order of between 3 and 4 pence in the pound since this government came into power but interestingly it is regressive taxation. Tax is always falling on those who are least able to pay on fuel, pensions, council tax. Taxes should be raised in a transparent manner so that people know when they are being taxed, with fairness being a key word.
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· The secretary commented that he was flipping through papers a week or so ago and noticed that North Wales Police are intending having a group of 1500 people, broken down into various groups including age, language, gender, sexual orientation and different ethnic communities throughout North Wales with whom they will consult to get feedback on crucial policy decisions. (He went on to say that nobody had asked him to join). A firm has been engaged to set up the panel. There is however no way offered of introducing yourself into that melting pot. There are people who want to make their views known. The problem is that people may be selected because of their supportive stance, such as many of the people who attend PCCG meetings. It could well become inward looking in support of the centre instead of being a true reflection of public opinion.
David Jones replied that he is a great believer in consultation procedures and although he had no knowledge of how this particular scheme had been set up by the police he was sure that it would be scientifically done. He asked if anyone in the room knew anyone who had been approached to take part. Nobody knew anyone who had been approached.
The secretary continued to say that the association has however sent a letter to the police authority three months ago and has still have not received a reply.
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· The Chair asked if there were any other issues from the floor, there were none.
David Jones closed by asking people with concerns to contact him through his office in Colwyn Bay on 01492 535845. He offered himself as a facility, he is home every weekend.
· The Chair thanked David Jones for visiting and contributing to the meeting and there was a round of applause for the Member of Parliament for Clwyd West.
