OLD COLWYN EAST RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION
Police Address by Inspector Gary Ashton at the
Old Colwyn East Residents' Association Annual General Meeting
Wednesday 8th June 2005
Old Colwyn East Residents' Association Annual General Meeting
Wednesday 8th June 2005
The Inspector addressed the meeting. He said that he had been in post nine months and eight months since he last addressed the Association, when he had laid out the plan that he had to deal with the significant antisocial behaviour problems being suffered in Old Colwyn and surrounding areas at that time.
The plan has been implemented and the Inspector said that from his perspective, we have made gains since then. He said that the police did not want to rest on their laurels but it is very nice to hear from groups such as the association who take such an active interest in the community, that there has been a noticeable improvement.
He commented that there is a lot more to be done. Other areas of the Bay of Colwyn under his command have bigger problems, probably where Old Colwyn was twelve months ago, consequently they are his focus attention and that of his staff. That does not mean however mean that Old Colwyn will be ignored but comes back to something the Chair had spoken of, that of encouraging people to ring the police, not in the expectation that a police officer will arrive within five minutes and resolve the issue, the whole point being that if a person rings and report anything to the police, it is registered.
Because demand outstrips supply of officers, the Inspector has to decide how he will deploy his staff, consequently where the greatest demand is.
He warned, if you do not pick up the phone and ring in or contact the police through your secretary the issues that are affecting you on a daily basis, then I will not know and consequently will not be able to deploy the staff to those problems. If you keep on ringing it will come to our attention and we will do something about it.
He thanked the secretary for contacting the police regularly and reiterated that communication is very important.
He then continued to say that the kind comments endorsed what he believed was happening in the area. The government set National Objectives and these are added to by the Local police service. These are strategic measurements that the force is given to address on such key issues as Burglary in the home, vehicle crime, violent crime and antisocial behaviour.
Targets are set for reducing and detecting these crimes. The police work to financial years and by the end of year 2004 / 5, burglary dwelling in the Old Colwyn area was down by 53%, a significant reduction. Violent crime stood still, described as a mini-success as violent crime in other parts of the country has escalated dramatically.
Vehicle crime is down by 18% and antisocial behaviour down minimally by 3%.
To round up he the crime in the area over the last twelve months was down by 15% in Old Colwyn.
He added that since he has been in post, violent crime has been turned from a 7% increase to a standstill situation. This has been done by introducing the Pubwatch scheme, backed up by regular visits to licensed premises and also a robust, no nonsense approach to antisocial behaviour, violence and public disorder.
Offenders are taken into custody far more frequently and the discretion of officers in that regard has been removed, He continued to say that violent crime is very much top of his personal agenda for the area.
In the first ten weeks of the current financial year, the Inspector said that he believed that the tactics were starting to bed in and ~ violent crime is down 20%. Burglary is down a further 36%, vehicle down 23% and REPORTED antisocial behaviour down 30%, ~ over the same period last year.
He said if people are not reporting antisocial behaviour then it is not a true reflection. The police can only act on what they are informed about. His feeling is that the police have a handle on the situation.
Question from resident ~ Is there any breakdown in violent crime between a one off crime and violent crime for instance after pub closing hours? For instance a one off crime may not be repeated, whereas violent drunken crime can be repeated.
Answer ~ Yes there would be a sanction against a person who repeatedly acts in this way, initially the person would be barred….. The questioner interrupted to ask if violent crime stats broken down in that sort of way, as a one off crime is almost separate, in his view from after hours drunken violence.
Answer ~ Every occasion of after pub closing hours crime whether assault or disorder reported by a member of the public CCTV or the police, each separate incident is recorded as a separate crime. If someone was responsible for a number of such crimes, there would be a number of sanctions that would escalate, barring from pubs, seeking antisocial behaviour orders.
Question from resident ~ If a person commits 10 crimes on one occasion, is it recorded as 10 crimes or 1 crime?
Answer ~ ten crimes, the number reported to the police.
Councillor Glyn Jones ~ under this system, if you identify a persistent offender can you target them?
Answer ~ Yes we do it is a government initiative top focus the minds of all the agencies on the people that cause the greatest pain to communities. Where they constantly come top attention but seem to go through the court system without any effective penalty, they may be drug dependant for instance and the idea is that the agencies work together to look at the subject of why the person persistently offends and for instance get the person on to a drug treatment program, if that is the problem.
Chair ~ We have Martin the CSO here in Old Colwyn now and he has done very well. You made a statement during your previous visit, that if you have a problem elsewhere, you will have to use our CBMs elsewhere. It seems to me that in the last few months or weeks that we seem to have been diluted of the CBMs and have just got Martin now and that is no disrespect to Martin, whose powers are 10% of a constable and 90% of the wages. There are core gangs of trouble makers, who you have knuckled into in fairness. We know here in the village that the twelve to fourteen year olds are catching up with them, but you do not know that, with respect because your people are not on the street.
The chair then spoke of the impression given by the large volume of new police cars at various police stations and Headquarters, cars for Schools Liaison Officers, which is another issue, they must have taken some of your more experienced officers for those jobs, which could be done by a civilian.
Answer ~ That is money that has been set aside by the Welsh Assembly and you are right they have drawn on staff, the experienced staff from the police service, to do that….
Chair continues~ What I am trying to say is that you are not here watching these youngsters joining the gangs.
Answer ~ Part of what you are levelling at me is outside of my control, I am given a quota of staff and I have to get on with it. Your first point is within my control and remit, the deployment of the PCSOs and CBMs. There are PCSOs in Colwyn Bay Town and they have been equally well received. The difficulty has been the concept of a CBM when it was first introduced by the Chief Constable; I think it has evolved over a period of time. I think there was a raised expectation amongst communities that the officers would be seen largely on foot patrol. I accept and even more so since the introduction of PCSOs, that there is a huge reassurance factor from seeing a police officer, or a uniform presence on foot and that they can challenge antisocial behaviour and the like. The difficulties arise where we have individuals who cause problems that we don't have powers to address. Other agencies may have the ability to do so with their powers. In consequence the CBMs have to work with those other agencies, share information to help tackle the problems. That takes them away from their front line duties and that is the role that I have reinforced with the CBMs that I want them to do, take responsibility for the underlying causes that are causing kids to hang around, problem addresses, whatever the particular issues are. That takes them away from patrol. Those persistent problems cannot be solved by foot patrol. The PCSOs are there and they have asked for the additional powers that are available, for instance the chief Constable can give power to detain people for up to 30 minutes. I have resisted that because the minute they start getting involved with prisoners, they are carted off to custody for up to two hours and they are in the evidence chain and will be called to court. These are all the sorts of things that keep officers away from front line duties as well. As far as I am concerned, 90% of the PCSOs time is for visible foot patrol. The CBMs have been affected by leave commitments over the last few weeks.
When I first came to your meeting, I spoke of abstracting the CBMs to go dealing with issues in other areas. That particular issue was in Rhos on Sea, I am glad to say, I have not had to do that since. The violent crime issue that was such an issue for the area, has required the CBMs to work collectively together, to pull together the Pubwatch scheme, to go and visit licensed premises and to be there to enforce with their powers to tackle violent crime. The consequence is that they have been working far more weekends and late shifts than they have done previously. Because the Pubwatch scheme has had such an impact in Town, it has spread to the other areas and it has been really successful.
Cllr Bob Squire ~ It is fair to say that there were previous Local Authority arrangements which have frustrated you as well and we have got together quite a bit of late, to cut through the difficulties and tighten up on things.
Inspector Ashton ~ I have worked very closely with Cllr Squire and Cllr Jones and we have met on a number of occasions to work through specific issues. We have identified issues where there were blocks in getting things done and we are working with the local authorities to iron them out.
Cllr Bob Squire ~ Schools is the classic one because the people who are causing problems in the streets are causing problems in the schools. We are looking at ways of getting far better.
Inspector Ashton ~ So as far as I am concerned, demand does outstrip supply, the figures I have quoted whilst encouraging in terms of the fact that they are reducing, there is still a big demand out there and the CBMs are tasked along with response officers with trying to drive down that demand. As it reduces, they will become more visible as there will be less problems for them to be abstracted away to. It will then become a virtuous circle then.
The Chair then said going back to speaking about those cars, there are going to be people driving those cars, they are police officers, so there are a lot of them somewhere.
Inspector Ashton replied, you talk about Abergele in particular, Abergele is under my control as well and there are six police vehicles in all for Abergele but at any particular time there are only four CBMs for Abergele, Towyn, Kinmel Bay .
The Chair took issue with the fact that there are apparently so many vehicles to be seen in various places but so few police officers.
Inspector Ashton ~ stated that it is a reflection of the times, there are so many obligations placed on the police, schools liaison, the helicopter, traffic policing, firearms, the increasing availability of replica firearms and the amount that that generates as well. There are a number of demands upon us he said which did not exist.
The Chair persisted to pose the question could the police PR system give the public even more information which would be more helpful in that direction and people might be more willing to pick that phone up and call the police. He finished by saying that is the big challenge.
The Inspector agreed and recalled that that was his message when he first visited our association what he wanted was to encourage people to start reporting incidents. He had reiterated that message this time and he hoped that he had made it clear, that the police are prepared to listen. He said “If you expect a police officer to turn up as a result of me standing here tonight, you are going to be disappointed. I can say that to you because we still have not got the resources to come to every incident, but please don't let that put you off, I have educated you to a degree as to how the processes work and how I can move my staff around to where the biggest problems are.
Resident ~ during the election we were bombarded several times by Government Ministers saying we have now got so many police, you can see police on the street. We don't see officers on the street.
Inspector Ashton ~ they are on the street but they are not on the street to the extent to which the public expect them. There is a degree of spin in that, there is no doubt about it, I do not say that, I have not said anything today that I cannot stand by.
The resident continued ~ I accept that but the government say one thing to the public but the public do not see that happening.
The Inspector replied ~ I fully accept that, I was a little sceptical about the introduction of PCSOs but I have to say that I embrace the whole of the scheme, they allow the uniformed visible presence on the street and the reassurance factor.
The Chair ~ I think that I would rather believe Gary Ashton than the Government.
Resident ~ Is a ball bearing pistol a replica gun?
Inspector Ashton ~ This is a big problem and something that I have tried to get some resolution on. A sergeant was tasked to go around the local shops, without any particular powers, pointing out the potential dangers in selling them to children. The fact that they are so realistic in appearance and the fact that if a member of the public sees someone with it and reports it to the police, then the response that we will send is an armed officer. The potential is there of a fatal incident occurring where a child is shot. It doesn't bear thinking about at all. That would be our response.
Resident Is it classed as a firearm?
Answer~ No it is not. It is the appearance which concerns me the most but also the use. They are fired at property and cause damage, they are pretty nasty things really and have no useful purpose. The response from some shops was lukewarm, other shops agreed to take them completely off sale or impose a voluntary age limit to not sell to children. I have recently struck up a relationship with Trading Standards and we have worked on a County wide scheme where cold callers would be discouraged from calling at addresses. The outcome of that is that we have started to talk about what we can do about the shops that do sell the ball bearing guns as well. The Government is starting to pick up the message as well which is encouraging; they will look at introducing specific legislation that we can use as well. As we know there is legislation concerning knives as well, but that has not stopped the tragic events that we have had.
The resident went on to describe that there was a young neighbour who fires a BB weapon indiscriminately near his house. The inspector replied that it does come back to a bit of parental responsibility really. He questioned if the resident could speak to his neighbour. Possibly warning that he had been to a police meeting where the police response to such an incident had been discussed as armed police and ask do you want your son in that position.
There is no legislation to prevent sale of the guns to children, there is no specific legislation to prevent them having them in their possession in public. The offences are assault or damage, it is a dangerous game.
The Inspector then finished his talk by saying that he wished to publicly thank his CBMs and PCSOs for doing such good work in the community.
