OLD COLWYN EAST RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION
Minute of an address by Inspector Gary Ashton,
District Inspector for Colwyn
Open meeting 10th November 2004
District Inspector for Colwyn
Open meeting 10th November 2004
Inspector Ashton introduced himself as the District Inspector covering the Colwyn bay area but said that his area was much wider than that, covering the area from Mochdre, along the coast to Kinmel Bay and to the south covering the areas of Betws yn Rhos, Henllan and Groes.
He said that he had noted from previous association minutes .that there were a number of issues locally.
He asked how the meeting would like him to progress the talk, he offered to take questions from the floor.
T he Chair asked the Inspector to give his vision of the future of policing in Colwyn.
The Inspector noted that there were two policing issues concerning the association
1. Local policing
2. The association's views about the chief constable Mr. Brunstrom
He asked that the meeting be confined to the former.
H e made it clear that he intended to have a good working relationship with the association and that he saw that as a critical matter.
O n the subject of statistics he reflected that he saw that figures are only as good as the information that comes in from the public.
H e said that he felt that the public locally had somewhat disengaged from the police, in phoning up to give information and he said that he recognised that the figures which the police use for statistical purposes are not always the full picture.
He went on to say that during the initial period of his appointment to Colwyn bay he was going around various groups such as ours, asking questions to find out the true picture of peoples' views on local policing.
I nspector Ashton informed the meeting that he was looking critically at the issue of community beat manager supervision. H e said that he has fourteen CBMs within his geographical area and one sergeant responsible for their supervision. That officer also has other specialist responsibilities.
He continued by saying that he had noted the dissatisfaction with the CBMs service and that he intended to install another sergeant soon and then meet with the various groups to nail specific issues which need prioritisation and talk about various individuals within areas.
At that stage he said that the police will prioritise the way in which they deal with certain locally agreed priorities.
H e noted that antisocial behaviour blights the lives of ordinary people. Therefore he said the CBMs need to be there to focus on the issue.
He explained that the CBMs have the time to work with partners as they are not subject to the demands of responding to radio calls about incidents.
The role of the CBMs is to be visible in the community but because of peripheral duties for example, visits to schools, they were not always available. He said that in his view, leadership and vision is required in the prioritisation of duties.
A resident asked him why he did not consider visits to schools important.
I nspector Ashton replied that whether school visits are undertaken by CBMs is a matter of priorities. In his view, at present Old Colwyn has more pressing issues that require addressing. When the police have addressed those issues he will encourage more frequent contact with the schools. It is not his intention to disengage from the schools entirely, just reduce the frequency and length of time of the visits ~ otherwise, often the harder issues do not get dealt with, for lack of time
The Secretary interjected that there are twelve new schools liaison officers to do that work.
Inspector Ashton replied that the role of the school's liaison officers is strictly controlled.
T he Chair also interjected to that the CBMs can meet with the youngsters on the street, they don ' t need to go to the schools and spoke of short term future problems which were developing with six young girls whose behaviour is starting to get worse in the village.
A resident spoke of the fact that over the last seven years council tax has increased the police precept has increased by 158 percent and pensions by ten percent. H e said that the increase in 2,002 for the extra CBMs was heralded as a new level of extra policing.
But he added when the CBMs is not available, nobody is left to police. T hen he asked “what happened to the level of policing which existed before CBMs”.
Inspector Ashton noted that that was a strategic question and said that there had been huge increases in legislation which had put greater burdens and obligations on the police service. H e used an example of the Family Protection Department which has units which are made up of police officers. These officers were necessarily taken off the front line. The idea was that the precept was to be used to fund new offices on the front line. H e added that in his view, a balance has to be found between the frontline and the behind the scenes departments.
A resident remarked that the public were asked to pay a larger precept for C BMs and noted that sixteen schools liaison officers had been appointed recently. T he question asked was “ where has the money come from for those posts”.
Inspector Ashton replied that they had been paid for by Welsh Assembly money. The posts were extra to the establishment of the force but have been filled by experienced officers. He added that his number of officers o n paper may be up to date but some of them are still in training school, until they are fully trained.
A resident said that we have heard that the CBMs have insufficient vehicles to enable them to do their job properly, whilst the school ' s liaison officers had brand new vehicles. The question asked was “why can't the Assembly find money for front line policing?”
The chair interjected that some new officers coming out of the training schools , appear to be too politically correct and do not seem to be “in your face” policeman. They don ' t seem to want to take the kids on and nip the problems in the bud.
Inspector Ashton replied that he recognised that newer officers may appear like that. He went on to say that the Steven Lawrence issue does not really affect policing in Colwyn Bay and he would challenge any officer who thought otherwise.
He went on to say that police officers have a huge raft of powers available to them to use for their work. T here are new amendments to legislation coming out regularly, with pieces for the police and the council authorities . H e felt that there was a degree of ignorance in the short term, of some of these issues amongst response officers who are generally younger in service.
He said that he would expect CBMs to be aware of all the tools at their disposal .
A resident said “you speak of a lack of supervision I have not seen a sergeant out with a constable for several years now”
Inspector Ashton replied that his regular theme when speaking to his sergeants is “supervision ”; there is a high proportion of officers who are young in service and they need intrusive supervision. On the other hand he said there are many administration tasks which have to be undertaken by sergeants. I t is important that a balance is maintained.
The resident continued to say that there is a lack of patrolling officers also .
Reply It is a balance which has to be maintained by the CBMs.
T he Chair said “we have a problem in old Colwyn, it is driver training. T here are always blue lights flashing through old Colwyn” . H e added that he was not blaming the Inspector and said that a lot of people do not know that it is driver training taking place. He said frankly it is becoming a bit of a joke. Other forces are being brought in for training and it gives the wrong impression. He said that he is aware that it brings in funding.
T he Secretary interjected that often the blue lights were on in both directions. Colwyn Bay is the centre of driver training; all vehicles leave from and return to the centre. On the majority of occasions; they are driving with their blue lights on. T here should be some balance struck where they leave their lights off on a proportion of their journeys through the local towns so as not to cause a nuisance.
Inspector Ashton said that he will register our concerns but suggested that we might write a letter to the operational support commander Superintendent Nick Snape.
A resident asked “If there are four in a car, is it always training and are the instructors police officers ?”
Answer “The police training vehicles are marked as such but not that well, the instructors are civilian members of staff”.
Council lor Cossey stated his concern that the CBMs should be visible on the streets for the maximum possible time.
Inspector Ashton Replied that in his opinion 50 percent of resources in the area are ill directed and not addressing street problems . T here is a need for refocusing on the issues. He stated his belief that there is a degree of problem solving and research required. Also meetings w ith other agencies are necessary. He said that visibility does not always solve the problems.
Councillor Cossey went further to say that officers are regularly taken away for other duties and events.
The Inspector then outlined an issue which came to pass when he first came to Colwyn. T here was a problem with vehicle crime and for a period of time he withdrew the Old Colwyn CBMs in order to deal with the problem effectively elsewhere. He said that it was not a course of action which he took lightly. H e added that if such a problem arose in Old Colwyn he would do the same to cover this area.
He outlined that he sees the CBMs as a team which where necessary he can deploy, as he sees fit, to tackle problems unable to be solved by single officers.
He went on to say that' s where there are problems or a special event, there is a need for policing to maintain a 24 / 7 Response cover: T o that end to the community beat manager is a resource to be used. Occasionally overtime is used to pay for response cover. H e pledged that it his intention to restrict abstractions of CBMs.
T he Chair said that there are two CBMs in Old Colwyn. They are often on time off and sometimes, they' re both of together.
Answer There are a number of issues. It is down to supervision.
A resident asked how drugs and the other issues are broken down for response purposes.
He said that if members of the public telephone about under-age drinking there is often no response. I s also appears that drugs issues are not responded to and are perceived as not important, from a police perspective.
Inspector Ashton explained that there are priorities for resources. B urglary in a dwelling/ vehicle crime/ violent crime /antisocial behavior and the supply of Class A drugs are a number of top priorities. There are few resources, so the most serious things have to be dealt with first, on the merits of the case.
He added that he encouraged people to phone the police and register all calls. I f a police officer does not come when promised, then the public should complain.
Under age drinking is difficult to resource but it is a very important issue for him as deaths can ensue from violence as a result of drunkenness.
Two issues were discussed at this point, how underage drinkers when approached by members of the public can get nasty and abusive which is why police officers are needed to respond. How adults often buy in off-licenses for underage drinkers and then pass it on in the streets.
The chair commented that sometimes when ringing the police you can get a good call-taker and other times if you're unlucky you can get a poor call taker.
Inspector Ashton outlined that there is a problem with heroin in Old Colwyn because there are addicts living there and encouraged the public to phone in to the police about incidents that they see.
T heir Secretary outlined local concerns regarding a young man whom it was alleged had been involved in the homicide of a man at the bottom of Hesketh road a couple of months ago. He had allegedly been charged with an offence; later local people had heard that he had been released to a bail hostel in Liverpool . S ince then he had been released on bail and was regularly seen walking around old Colwyn with groups of youths, and was obviously relishing in his notoriety. T his was seen as totally unacceptable and a measure of how the courts took public feelings into account in such cases.
I nspector Ashton confirmed that the person had been charged and a court had made the judgement to release him on bail. H e understood the concerns expressed.
A resident asked a question, looking beyond parochial policing, do officers spend time on border policing to do with terrorism?.
The Inspector replied that all officers have a duty to be aware of such issues and pass on any intelligence that they become aware of. T here are police officers at ports who are particularly responsible for border policing.
Mrs. Dann then asked whether there are contingency plans in the event of terrorist incident
The Inspector assured everyone that such plans were in place.
T he Chair thanked Inspector Ashton for attending the meeting and listening so intently to our points of view. He said that he felt that the Inspector had made his views quite clear and it augured well for the future of policing in the area.
Inspector Ashton replied that it was good that the association met to take such an interest in the local area and wished everyone well.
There was a round of applause for the officer.
