OLD COLWYN EAST RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION
Chief Superintendent Julian Sandham 10.September 2003
Minute of a Talk by Chief Superintendent Julian Sandham, Commander of the Central Division, North Wales Police, to the Association on 10 th September 2003
Chief Superintendent Sandham opened his talk and referred to the letter that the Association had sent to the Chief Constable. He added that in preparing for the talk he had spoken to the secretary and intended to answer the concerns expressed in the letter as fully as he could.
Item 1, He noted that ‘the community was openly supportive of the police’. He said that he felt grateful for that statement. He added that he realised that it is a generalisation and is not always reported like that in the press but the partnership between the police and the community is a key one. He then went on to produce a number of statistics which showed he said that taking everything into account there was less damage, burglary, vehicle crime, assault but more theft. The trends of the last couple of years are encouraging.
In terms of anti-social behaviour which is a local problem, the police have a plan to have more reported, they have an anti-social behaviour coordinator called Stuart Lloyd, whose job it is to gather evidence from any source, collate it and liaise with partners to control the persons causing the problems.
Mr Lloyd was responsible for the two high profile beggars in Colwyn, who were made subject of ASBOs. That local problem was followed up by good press coverage and followed by the police with a flyer giving full details to the community of the two persons responsible.
This type of initiative he said aids the partnership approach. He then went on to praise Inspector Ken Jones (present) who had put in a lot of very hard work and shown results in the Colwyn area, his performance was second to none in the Force during the last policing year.
Item 2 The issue from the letter to the Chief concerning the ‘numbers of police officers available to respond’ was the next one that he chose to deal with. He said that 80% of the force budget is devolved to managers at divisional level and in the Central Division that meant to him.
He stated that at constable rank in Central Division, 73% of the officers were on front line policing duties. That equated to 219 officers out of a total of 296. There are no vacancies in the strength.
He then went on to describe what ‘front line meant’:
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Community Beat Managers.
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Response Drivers and the
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Pro-
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CBM’s
Last year there were 32 CBM’s and through a rise in the police precept a further 19 were sanctioned for this year. He stated that it was his target to have 51 Community Beat Managers in place by 31 st March 2004. In making that statement he said that it was a detailed plan in which he had to factor in recruitment and training.
Response
There were 178 response drivers, 60% of the total. A certain number of constables had to work in Area control room and CID.
There were other necessary police functions which required operational police officers:
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Family Protection Units – dealing with domestic violence
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Intelligence officers – there is a local officer Geoff Wiggin, whose job it is to gather intelligence and target offenders. This type of policing gets results.
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Community Safety – Crime prevention, there is some civilianisation in this department.
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Divisional Training Unit, a number of officers are in the Divisional Training Unit at Rhyl. They can be used as a support group under the direction of the CBM or the local Inspector.
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Mr Sandham then spoke of the process of response. All calls are graded on receipt. There is a target for replying to 999 calls, 90% should be answered within 10 seconds. That target is consistently achieved.
With ordinary telephone calls, the target is 90% answered within 30 seconds.
Calls then graded as Immediate are to be attended as soon as possible. In preparation for the talk, Mr Sandham said he had done a sample over the last few days and the majority of calls for immediate assistance were attended in between 2 and 9 minutes.
Delayed response is a tag given to incidents where it is judged that (a) no immediate response is necessary, such as where there is no risk to life or no risk of losing evidence. ( b) immediate response should not be given, or (c) Relay to CBM. There are some calls which are judged not to require any officer to attend.
Item 3. The shift system. The Chief Constable had replied in his letter that Colwyn Bay officers work a ten hour (four days a week) shift system. Mr Sandham went on to say that this shift system is a critical element of the effectiveness of local policing. He stated that he is currently reviewing the shift system because he has to be certain that it is effective.
Abstractions have increased. In the area of training for instance he has no choice but to give officers training in first aid, driving, baton training. He referred to Inspector Jones and said that he was monitoring abstractions to ensure that they were kept to proper levels.
He then hazarded a personal view that relative to total demand, even though there are more constables than ever, they are under-resourced.
He then produced figures showing that over the years since 1974, the demand for officers had increased by a huge amount whilst the increase in force establishment had not kept pace. He put forward one explanation as the advent of mobile telephony.
Item 4. The new Custody centre at St Asaph issueThe Chief Constable had not addressed this at all in his reply. Mr Sandham accepted that it was a relevant point. Travel time is always an issue. He stated that there would still be a facility at Llandudno as and when they saw fit, for instance on a Friday and Saturday night. Also at Denbigh they would maintain an as and when policy.
He said it was an issue where time moves on, the issues of the suitability of Custody suites was subject to outside pressures, they had to have sophisticated equipment for monitoring life signs, CCTV monitors and this and more all added up to the need for a centre of excellence custody suite. It needed to be in a central position.
He stated that Response Officers from this District will not move to St Asaph, they will continue to deploy from the immediate area where they are based.
Item 5. The Officers decentralised issue Mr Sandham agreed with the Chief Constables assertion that there were not hoards of officers in Headquarters. The force has decided to review even the small number that is there. There has been a lot of civilianisation in Headquarters any way and there are not a lot of posts left to consider.
Item 6. The Arrive Alive issue. Taking one facet of the office of constable to the extreme, at the expense of others. Mr Sandham said that Arrive Alive had no impact on police numbers. The officers on the initiative were extra, paid for by the fines of people caught speeding. It actually frees up officers who would otherwise have to be deployed on other road safety initiatives.
He said that if Arrive Alive no longer existed, he would not be better off for officers in Division; he would have to deploy other officers to road safety.
Item 7. The issue ‘if taxes go up, the public want extra officers not CBM’s’. This was contrary to the results found from the consultative round that had been carried out prior to this years increase in police precept. The majority consulted wanted more CBM’s. Mr Sandham challenged the meeting to tell him where there were gaps in places.
Item 8. Final issue from the letter, the role of the CBM. This is an area where there is a lot of development taking place, the staff work with management and have a set plan to work to. A lot of effort goes into it and it is a living, breathing plan. It is monitored each month with targets and performance indicators. VickyRoscoe our CBM will have targets which relate to anti social behaviour for example.
There are also career planning agreements. The majority of CBMs have signed up to these to react to the comments, ‘we never see a police officer and when we do it is always a new face’. These are informal agreements to stay in place for a minimum of 3 yrs. The idea is to establish a rapport with the community with confident communications.
There was then a question and answer session
Resident I have no complaint with Arrive Alive, it cuts deaths, except when the Chief Constable says travelling 36 miles per hour is antisocial behaviour. One of the best local officers in my opinion that we have ever had is sat on his backside now in the back of a camera vehicle. Why does it have to be a fully trained police officer behind the camera?
Answer At present, it is enshrined in legislation that it must be a police officer. I support the Chief Constable in his stance on Arrive Alive. With drink and driving, there was a change of public opinion. The Chief seeks to achieve having speeding thought of as antisocial. There will be more people alive as a result.
Resident If he put more energy put into other areas of policing, there would be a better public response.
Answer We are seeking ways to address that. It is black and white whether people break the law by speeding. Is it black and white if someone is urinating in the street? The method of disposal is if someone crosses the line; we have to take it further. The line is not as clear as speeding; it is the same philosophy it is antisocial behaviour.
Resident I am confused, you say that Arrive Alive is self financing and are you saying that the officers are extra to establishment?
Answer Yes
Resident continues Are the Home Office aware of that?
Answer Yes
Resident How can you say it is selffinancing without knowing the finances in advance?
Answer A pilot was carried out; there was a startling reduction in road casualties. We came in with the second phase, Northampton did the study and we followed their lead particularly with funding, making the same assumptions. The money goes to the Home Office; a proportion of the fines is ploughed back into road safety. There are strict criteria about identifying sites where we can enforce speed restrictions in this way and we have to stick to that.
Resident Has there been a reduction in ordinary patrol cars they are not seen as much on the roads?
Answer Yes, the role has changed; the major change has been the Armed Response Vehicles. The Department was seen to be the suitable or most appropriate to take on the role of armed response. So we now have the Traffic Section split, one side is Tactical the other Road Policing supported by a Collision Investigation Unit.
Resident From the proceeds of arrive Alive, what Road Safety measures have been put in place?
Answer I don’t know the fine detail of the project; it’s not in my role to know. I know the principles, I know the sites where we operate, and I know the attention that we have given to such issues as seat belts. Arrive Alive is a multi-agency initiative.
Resident The response teams are double manned when they arrive at incidents. I have no argument with that in essence because it is safer for the officers who arrive at violent incidents. Effectively though when you double up your crews, you halve your number of units, in times gone by, there was only one officer in a vehicle.
Answer Yes it could be inefficient; we are currently looking at that issue. Kent has done some research into the correct use of single crew response vehicles. We are using that in Division. It is possible to increase effectiveness. When you see response vehicles out in the daylight, they should normally be single crewed unless they are going to a particular job. If you see three or four in a vehicle they may be on training.
Resident continues Thepolice force seems to have gone totally down the track of Anti-social Behaviour Orders, those we are told require someone to be caught three times before the ASBO is effective. Often now when an officer comes to an incident he or she will take names and go on to the next incident. They do not seem to confront incidents with for instance Section 5 of the Public Order Act any more and warn people that they may be arrested if they do not stop their conduct.
Answer Ch. Supt Section 5 can be dealt with by fixed penalty noticeif the person is over 18 yrs old.
(Inspector Jones) Of course there is a statutory warning to be given in the case of Section5.
Ch. Supt continues Anti social behaviour orders are an extra tool. In Penmaenmawr, we have found them to be very effective. Of course we now have a second string that on conviction for an offence, we can ask the court to make an ASBO in respect of that person and that has the effect of helping to control behaviour.
(Inspector Jones) Not all anti-social behaviour amounts to Section5.
Resident You say thereare to be 19 extra beat managers, will they supplement the present beats or be in new areas.
Answer We are in the process of deciding what to do. By consultation with our Crime Reduction Partners and the Police Community Consultative Meetings I have arrived at a proposal;
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Divide Kinmel Bay into two beats. 2. Divide Old Colwyn into two beats. 3. Divide Colwyn Bay into 2 beats. 4. Make the West end of Colwyn Bay into a new beat. 5. Make Rhos on Sea and Penrhyn Bay into 2 beats.
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This proposal is now in a process in which it will go to the Local Authority, the Police Authority and Community Councils to invite their views
Operational policing is a decision for the Chief Superintendent but I want to take representations from the ratepayers and look at the response.
Resident If there is an extra officer in Old Colwyn, will that mean there is cover for the whole of Old Colwyn for seven days a week?
Answer No, I believe that it is better to allow the Community Beat Manager ownership of a beat. There may be changes over time and we will consult persons in the area. Obviously it is possible if one is off on leave, they can make arrangements to help each other.
Resident You say there are 196 front line officers?
Answer 219 front line in Central
Resident continued. Could you tell the meeting what area that covers?
Answer Conwy and Denbighshire
Resident continued. Splitting those officers into three shifts, how many officers are available?
Answer They are not evened out; the numbers are aligned to pressure times.
Resident continued. With training andabstractions what are the figures, how many officers are there to respond?
Answer I am aware of abstractions but ring up and we will send someone out.
Resident continued. Three weeks last Sunday,a resident rang the police to complain that kids were breaking a fence. Later he rang again to say that they had set fire to the fence and that he had put the fire out and the kids were still there. The sergeant told him that he could not send anyone as there was only one sergeant and two officers covering 50,000 persons.
Answer All I can say is tell me I am concerned that nobody resourced this incident. If there is a problem tell me.
Resident Officers on the beat are required they are just not seen.
Answer The Chief Constable has said that he needs more community beat managers and response officers.
Resident There is a recruiting vehicle at Headquarters which cost thousands of pounds to fit out, to my knowledge it has not moved for the last couple of weeks.
Answer We are recruiting regularly; I review my recruiting needs on a monthly basis, I ring up and tell the recruiting department how many I need.
Resident continued The question that I am asked all the time is where are all the police officers?
Answer In today’s day and age if I did not provide for instance a Family Protection Unit, I would be removed from post, I have essential services that I have to provide to the Division. I have a number of Response Officers, yes leave takes officers away I have to provide essential training for officers, Defensive Tactics training for two days each, Court takes its toll but officers have to go to court. There is no cupboard to bring other officers out of.
Resident ( referring to the incident described previously about the youths damaging a fence)
The lads are from a well known family, they had two saws a shovel and a pickaxe which I took away. Later, I had abuse at my home and I finally lost it and sat on one for 20 minutes. It was later that my son came home and said there were six patrol cars by the Wendover stopping all cars and asking people if they had been drinking.
Answer Central Control has a massive number of calls and they are in the spotlight.
Resident If we ring through we often get put through to Wrexham and then you have to explain to the person where you are and they don’t know the area.
Answer That is because if the phones are busy in Colwyn Bay, they are diverted to another control room.
Resident I support the police, you have a bad job but where are all the police officers? There are just not enough cops.
The Chair brought the questioning to an end at this point, thanking the Chief Superintendent for attending and giving his talk. There was then a round of applause for the officers.