Old Colwyn (East) Residents’ Association
Minutes of the Open Meeting Wednesday 10th February 2010
Item 1.
Those present signed the register. There were 15 persons present.
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Item 2.
Apologies – David Jones MP, Mark and Elly Chatham, Reverend Keith Forecast, Sgt Andy Kirkham, Eric Evans, Neville Ellis, Dennis and Pat Clowser, Peter Lawrence, Tony and Marcia Beardmore, Alison Childs.
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Item 6 brought forward
Police report Superintendent Richard Brough was present at the meeting with CBM Mike Williams. The Chair welcomed the officers.
CBM Mike Williams began by reading out some statistics pertaining to policing matters in
Colwyn Ward.
April 2008 -
April 2009 -
So this year there were 67 less recorded crimes and the detection rate has gone up 6%.
Mike said that he had noticed himself that things have improved in Old Colwyn, adding that he realised that it is still not perfect.
Eirias Ward
April 2008 -
April 2009 – February 2010 there were 128 recorded crimes
He added that things have not changed much in Eirias Ward.
Most of those crimes are criminal damage to cars and property. It was reported at the meeting last month that two youths had been arrested who admitted to a large majority of the offences of damage. They have been through the court system but one was arrested again this week because he is still damaging property. He has been charged with a further offence this week and is going through the court system. Mike added that he has applied for ASBOs on conviction (CRASBOs) on both offenders. (possibly a curfew, not to associate with each other, one of them not to enter Old Colwyn).
Mike reported a vast improvement in the amount of youths now not drinking on our streets, last year on Friday and Saturday nights large quantities were seized. For the last four or five months hardly anything has been seized. He added that he knows that there are still antisocial behaviour problems in the village and he and his team still need to be as visible as possible.
The adults drinking under the Arches have not been reported by the public recently.
There is a crime car /proactive team comprising a Sergeant and a constable in Colwyn Bay. They have reported for Old Colwyn this month; a warrant in Station Road ~ occupant been charged with possession of Class A drugs; A warrant near Pen y Bryn ~ occupant charged with possession of amphetamine; an arrest of a man on the main road possession of class A drugs; A warrant in Min Afon Flats ~ person arrested for possession of cannabis with intent to supply. Numerous stop searches for drugs and a man has also been charged with cultivation of cannabis in respect of the drugs factory discovered in January in Abergele Road.
A lot of work is being done in the area.
The flats on the corner of Cefn road/Station Road have been a bit of a drugs problem which has been building for a while. It was previously cleared of a drugs problem but one or two have crept back in. The owners are very keen to get the block cleaned up and get some decent tenants in to replace the problem few. One has been served notice to quit; Mike added that hopefully the premises can been cleaned up again.
Licensing have really stepped up their game in the last couple of months. The pubs are continuing to be monitored and action is being taken where required.
There was an article about the hut at Rainbow Bridge; that has now been cleaned of all the cans and bottles. There is concern that someone could fall over the edge of the cliff.
Mike drew to a close.
The Chair brought forward those issues concerned with policing in the agenda.
Drug issues had been noted and passed on to the police.
On street drinking, bottles and cans are regularly discarded but things are a bit quieter especially at this time of year. Min y Don Park and Back Abergele Road are two areas regularly targeted by drinkers.
The Chair added that he was pleased to hear the good police report and it was good to hear of all the good police work that is being done in Old Colwyn. He thanked Mike for his report.
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Superintendent Richard Brough then introduced himself to the meeting. He was previously the Operational Superintendent for the past two and a half years and now is the Partnership Superintendent covering the Counties of Conwy and Denbighshire, responsible for delivering
Neighbourhood Policing ~ CBMs PCSOs, School Liaison Officers, Community Safety and also Licensing.
He said that he was pleased to concur with what Mike had previously said and some of the crime reductions that have been seen in Old Colwyn have been seen throughout the County, this was pleasing and it had been a good year. The crimes that annoy people and impact on their lives the most ~ criminal damage and antisocial behaviour are down fairly significantly in East Conwy.
He continued to say that what really matters is whether people have noticed it on the ground because it is easy to look at statistics and see the downward trend. He hoped that people have found that things are better; there is quite a lot of work still to do as Mike had previously said.
Licensing is one of the big issues being concentrated on for the reason that the
areas that are causing the police much concern across both Counties and Force-
The Local Authority and the Police have put a lot of resources into the Joint Licensing Team. Before Christmas there were a series of controlled test purchases using underage persons in both Counties. The Conwy ones were finished two weeks ago. Each establishment was visited three times. Those that fail twice are sent to review with the Licensing Committee; those that fail three times face a closure order. One such premises is the Ship Hotel in Old Colwyn. There is a 28 day negotiation period where they can try to get the licence back or influence the Licensing Committee, so they don’t lose their licence by making reasonable adjustments.
Nationally there are a lot more police powers for licensing now, the police are being heavy handed at present because they need to be, as there is a problem especially in Rhyl where alcohol related violence is a significant problem. The police are using all their powers to work with the Clubs and Pubs; hopefully, he added, that will influence behaviour. It is not the intention to close pubs down, it is difficult for Licensees to make a living and that is appreciated but they do need to behave responsibly.
Looking to the future, there is concern about all the cuts in the public sector; North Wales Police is no exception; they will have to find £16 million of cuts over the next three years. There is a project team looking at that and at every aspect of Police business, how the structure works, who is paid what, the pay rates for different departments and sections – whether they are the same as the National average. The promising thing about the review is that the Chief’s priorities for the review are Response Policing and Neighbourhood Policing; they will be the very last things that get cut.
There are many back office functions, some are “nice to do” and some will probably cease, concentrating on what is necessary to do; making people feel safe and make sure we have the resources there at the front line when people phone 999 to ask for help. That is the focus of the review, times will get harder but the back office will bear the brunt of that.
With that Superintendent Brough asked for questions.
The Chair commented that is was good to see that the back office will take the brunt of the cuts and it will not be the thin blue line as it was last time, it is nice to hear that the new Chief Constable has his focus on the public.
The Superintendent said that his view is that over the years the police have drifted away from being a “front line first” organisation and the back office has slowly got bigger and now the new Chief has come in and has ordered a structure review and there are a lot of jobs that have been created in the back office that we don’t need. They are nice to have and are useful but we just do not need them.
The Chair continued the other thing is that we have noticed that there is a thin blue line, we have spoken about it a lot, we used to have two CBMs in Old Colwyn, now we have one and Mike has a much bigger area than he had before. What is good is that if we talk to our police officers, they do listen and they do respond.
Superintendent Brough replied that it is nice to hear comments like that, there will not be any more police officers or CBMs but there is still more that can be done to use existing resources more effectively. That too will be part of the review.
Councillor Cossey said that over the years the test purchases have been done in pubs
and off-
Superintendent Brough replied that it makes it more difficult for police as it is much harder to detect. More needs to be done by interacting with the children themselves. Most will talk to the police. The Rhos Bistro was closed down recently and it was youngsters who said “everyone knows that they serve underage drinkers”. He added that more will be done to tackle the issue, it is a big priority. The police are of the view that it holds the answer to antisocial behaviour and alcohol fuelled violent crime.
The chair thanked Superintendent Brough and CBM Mike Williams for their reports. The officers left the meeting at that point.
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Item 3
The minutes of last meeting on Wednesday 13th January 2010 were read by the secretary. They were proposed as a true record by Janet Gardner, seconded by Ray Gardner and accepted unanimously.
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Item 4
Matters arising from last month’s minutes~
A resident reported that there is apparently no person living at 19 Princess Road which is a Housing Association house. There are three full and overflowing bins at the rear which have not been emptied since long before Christmas and there is a fear of rats which have been previously seen in the area.
Councillor Cossey had said that the Housing Association would be informed to clear it.
Result ~ the bins have now been cleared -
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Insurance for meetings ~ This insurance has been arranged
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ALDI new planning application regarding refrigeration noise. Last month members were encouraged to write in objection in support of the owners of the house next door to ALDI, the owners of which are suffering loss of amenity because of the noise of the refrigeration equipment. The secretary and committee have since been written to by Neil and Shereen Jones as follows:
We have acted on the advice of our solicitor. We are obviously very disappointed that the unit isn't going further away from us, ideally behind the back of the store where it should have gone originally and where, in our view, it would not have been a nuisance to us. As things are, ALDI are legally entitled to submit a backdated application to have it anywhere provided that the noise issue is addressed. They have been asked for predicted noise levels and the Council is satisfied that there will be no statutory nuisance/ loss of amenity to us.
We are not convinced but if we object and the present plant stays where it is we will be embroiled in legal battle that could take months/years. We want the matter resolved and a reduction in the noise levels is better than nothing at this time.
We genuinely hope that the Council is right and we won't be affected by it. It's a strange system though; you would have thought that they would put it somewhere well out of the way to eliminate any doubt.
That’s how it is, we are very grateful for your and the residents support but feel for the sake of our health, that we should resolve this affair sooner rather than later.
Councillor Cossey added that the matter had been before the Planning Committee that day. Shereen had spoken at the meeting and told the committee that she had withdrawn her objection. He and Councillor Carlisle had also spoken. The application was approved. Assurances were received from Environmental Health that they will keep a close eye on it when the new equipment is installed. The present decibel level is 40; the new equipment will be 18.
It will be much further away in its new location than at present. Much of the machinery will be inside the store.
Councillor Carlisle added that they have asked for a letter to go with the Planning approval saying that it has to be carried out immediately. If it is not and the noise levels of the new equipment is still too loud, they have now got the wherewithal to go in and switch the fridges off altogether while it is tested and sorted.
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Item 5
Standing items~
Policing/Local Crime / Nuisance
Incidents associated with the supply of drugs have been seen in Cliff Road, Cefn Road, Station Road and back Abergele Road areas the police have been informed.
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On street drinking is still happening in Old Colwyn. Bottles regularly discarded. Back Abergele Road and Min y Don Park are badly affected.
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Public Meetings about Strategic Regeneration Area funding took place almost 3 months ago.
Councillor Cossey explained at last months open meeting that it transpires that an officer in the Welsh Assembly Government had not bothered to add up the value of the projects that had already been agreed for this year. In fact, the money for this year for regeneration has already been allocated under the projects that have been agreed. The Minister has not apologised to the Chief Executives or anyone else and has now been promoted out of the office concerned.
An enormous amount of work has been done in Conwy and in Old Colwyn to try and bring projects forward.
The secretary has written to Darren Millar AM quoting the facts and saying
My point is that I don't take kindly to my valuable time being wasted. I also object to the valuable time of members of the public being wasted. Someone has done or said something wrong which has caused Councillors to act in the way that they did. Facts as reported to the public point to the Minister for Regeneration.
Shane Wetton of the Bay Life initiative also supported the views of councillors so it was not two or three councillors going off on their own tangent. They were encouraged to do so by the Minister's outburst as reported to our meetings.
I wish to know on behalf of the Association why we were mislead as a result of what the Minister said, into believing that there was an urgent need for bids to be secured for SRA funding this financial year. This matter as reported to us by our representatives shows a remarkable lack of professionalism in the corridors of power in the Welsh Assembly Government.
There is no doubt that the need for speed affected the manner in which the public meetings were conducted and the way that residents were encouraged to act.
I wish to report the facts to the Residents association and would be pleased if you could help me secure a statement on the issue. All the necessary reports of our meetings and the public meetings are on our website.
Yours sincerely
David Curtis, Secretary
Answer from Darren Millar AM
Thank you for your email.
I will write to the Welsh Assembly Government to request clarification and will get back to you when I am in receipt of a response.
Best regards,
Darren Millar AM
Councillor Cossey added that the report on regeneration should hopefully be ready before the next meeting and copies will be circulated.
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The Fencing that was erected by the Council opposite the Catholic Church in Cliff Road is being damaged. Work is now planned by the Council to remedy this.
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At the last open meeting the following question was asked
On Sunday 6th December, the secretary heard banging sounds from the wall at the top of the Tan y Coed bank in Station Road. By the time he had got there, several youths who had been briefed by a supervisor from COMMUNITY PAYBACK were wielding sledge hammers and had knocked a very large hole out of the wall in the location where a stile used to be before the wall was reinstated.
At the meeting Councillor Cossey reported that it was a matter of according with the requirements of a nearby resident’s deeds giving access to Station Road via the wall.
At the committee meeting the committee asked if a group such as “Making Tracks” who did the initial work to the wall could be engaged to repair the damage done to the wall and restore it to a simple stile.
Councillor Cossey answered that he would arrange for that to happen.
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Soap scum in Afon Colwyn ~ The Council were informed two months ago and are looking into the source of the problem. The Environment Agency is investigating the matter.
Councillor Cossey added that the Environment Agency has written to all houses in that area asking them to check their connections.
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Refuse wheelie bins stored on the street – At a recent Committee meeting the committee asked “What is the answer with this issue, it has been brought up so often over months and has been addressed and then relapsed. Do we simply ignore it; the authorities seem unable to act to enforce the rules”.
Councillor Cossey had replied that Aled and Rhian the Council Officers with responsibility for this matter have been busy recently with this issue. He outlined matters that are under way with various property owners in Old Colwyn. The committee were reassured that matters are in hand.
Councillor Cossey added that North Wales Housing has been written to about the ones by the Post Office. The Estate Officer for NWH will write to each tenant asking them to move their bin.
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Our Association Website -
January unique visitors 405
February up to the 10th 130
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Cliff Road parking signs. This is in action status.
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Item 7.
Any other business.
The Victoria Pier meeting
You will all probably be aware that David Jones MP called a public meeting to discuss the future of the Victoria Pier this month.
The meeting was attended by our councillors and several members of the association.
It was apparent from those present that there is support for the Pier being restored and also from some people that they are willing in principle to contribute to the restoration.
It seems that the council remains in litigation with Mr Steve Hunt and that the freehold of the pier is still technically in the ownership of administrators. Until that is sorted nothing can happen.
There was a call for the Council and the Administrator to talk to Mr Hunt which they are not doing. There was also a call for Mr Hunt to drop his claims of unlawful actions against Council Officers in order that talk can be facilitated.
It is plain to see that there is a wish from the public for the Pier in some form to continue but not at snails pace.
It is probable that if the Pier is put into the hands of a charitable trust there would be money available from the Welsh Assembly Government.
Mr Hunt was dismissive of a charitable trust as the way forward.
A Steering Committee to will be required to progress the issue once the ownership issue has been sorted and David Jones MP is appealing for volunteers for that group. He has a meeting with the Chief Executive of the Council this month and maybe there will be a way forward.
Whatever happens, the Pier must either be restored in whole or in part -
Another meeting will be called by David Jones MP after his meeting with the Chief Executive
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Local talk
Interest has been expressed in the past about having a talk from Chris Lloyd from Ogwen Valley Mountain Rescue Team. For various reasons that has not been possible to date. A talk is arranged for the public by Chris Lloyd about the Mountain Rescue Team. The entry is £3 and it is to be held at Llanelian Community Hall at 7.30pm on Thursday 18th February 2010. All are welcome, pay at the door.
Mrs Williams spoke of the street lighting in the entry at the rear of Princess Road. The light has gone again.
Mrs Williams also reported that a large hydraulic cherry picker was operated in the alley; he has caused a big hole in the tarmac. Councillor Cossey noted the issues.
Ray Gardner brought up the subject of the terrible potholes in Wynnstay Road.
A resident added that it is difficult to see the damage when going down the hill and could any warning signs be put out.
Councillor Cossey replied that it was going to be repaired just before the ice and snow. There is no money at present but it is high on the priority list with the Cabinet Member responsible. He added that the idea of warning signs was a good idea.
The Chair commented on the work done some months ago under the arches when the road
was closed for nine weeks. The concrete work is unsightly and less than professional.
It is dark concrete and has not been made smooth. Also the down-
Councillor Cossey replied that he sits on the North Wales Trunk Road agency and will bring the matter to their attention. He has also arranged for an Audit of the environment in the 50 mph area, it was planted 25 yrs ago with the new road and it has not been touched since.
Overhanging hedges are a problem ~ who can we contact?
Councillor Cossey replied that there should be a Footpath Inspector and he would make enquiries and report back.
The Chair spoke of a report of Inspector Ahari being pushed around in a pushchair highlighting the difficulties for disabled people. He had highlighted the deep half pipe gulleys crossing pavements that cause difficulty for wheelchair users.
The Chair said that several months ago he had reported seeing a man almost pitch over onto his face on the footpath near the Post Office in Old Colwyn when his wheeled zimmer was caught and locked in a deep half pipe. He had reported it to the Councillors responsible and been told that there were no funds left for such work. It is still the same and a present danger to disabled residents.
Councillor Cossey replied that the ALDI money had been used to replace most of the gulleys in the village with covered ones and unfortunately there was insufficient money to do the ones by the Post Office. It is well known that they require doing and they will possibly be done within the next year. They will be done in the next year or two because it is part of what we are asking for under the regeneration.
Councillor Carlisle gave a monthly report on behalf of herself and Councillor Cossey about work they have done.
- The SRA had already been touched upon in the meeting; a reply is awaited from the Minister.
- There has been another problem caused by the Welsh Assembly, all the Local Health
Boards were dissolved last October and now the Minister Edwina Hart has decided to
do the same to the Community Health Councils that we all rely on to do emergency
visits to hospitals, to check cleanliness, patient safety issues. We have used them
a lot in Old Colwyn for problems to do the cancer treatment times etc. This is devastating
that the numbers of Councils and their effectiveness will be cut. Conwy Council had
not been consulted on the closures. The Minister had forgotten to send anything to
Conwy. We also found that it was the same with Wrexham, Flintshire and Denbighshire;
Most of North Wales is un-
consulted on these closures.
The Council passed an emergency resolution last Thursday to halt the closures until we can have our say on the issues.
The Chair asked what our Assembly Member thought about it.
The councillors replied that they did not know that we had not been consulted. Conwy was included on the list of consultees but had not been contacted by the Minister.
The Chair asked if the Community Health Councils are cut, does it follow that we will get a worse service.
The Councillors replied that it would, instead of one for each Council area, ie 12 for Anglesey and 12 for Gwynedd there will just be one for North Wales. They cannot possibly act as a Watchdog for patients.
It was resolved that a letter be sent to Darren Millar AM from our Association about the issue.
- The potholes have been discussed we are seeking constantly for our roads to be a priority.
- Dog fouling ~ big problems on the cycle track. There is one dog warden for Conwy. Regulatory have agreed for stepped up patrols in Wynnstay Road, Cycle track, Minafon and Fairy Glen which are hotspots.
- Repairs to Cycle track ~ there has been subsidence in the area owned by Network rail and a huge crack appeared in the track. Network Rail were monitoring it but they have now agreed to do a repair.
- We have spoken about the ALDI issue
- The Youth Club in Rosehill has been closed for a couple of weeks because of staffing problems. It is now reopening on Thursdays 6.30 to 8.30pm. Councillors have also requested that “Bus stop” (a mobile youth activity centre in a vehicle) call in Old Colwyn on a Friday night into the Plough car park to attract the youth that are hanging around Jackie’s and the like.
- The Police have applied to start a youth club on a Friday evening in Colwyn Bay Football Club.
- M&K car wash issue ~ councillors have managed to get the enforcement notice served and it has been shut down until screening and drains and car parking space have been dealt with.
The councillors were thanked for their report.
Item 8
The next meeting is 10th March 2010 at 7pm.
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