Old Colwyn (East) Residents’ Association 


 
Minutes of a discussion about how Strategic Regeneration Area Funding can be
used to improve Old Colwyn ~  Led by Councillor Brian Cossey and Cheryl Carlisle
at the Open Meeting Wednesday 11th November 2009

Councillor Cossey opened the discussion by announcing that a funding bid for £35,000 had
been successful for Fairy Glen Phase 3.

He thanked the meeting for attending and the members of the press for advertising the
meeting.He introduced himself and Councillor Bob Squire and announced apologies from
Councillor Glyn Jones. Councillor Carlisle would he said keep notes of what is said so that
track can be kept of what was said at the meeting compared to what the people at the
Monday meeting had said. He further announced that he would not say what the people on
Monday had said.

He explained that a few months ago a Welsh Assembly Minister for Regeneration had
visited Colwyn Bay and he made a big announcement that the area from Colwyn Bay
through to Rhyl would be declared a Strategic Regeneration Area (SRA). It came about
because they have seen that nationally there is a problem with coastal towns and holiday
resorts. The SRA has been expanded from Mochdre to Prestatyn. Councillors asked for
Mochdre to be included on the Conwy side because traditionally that is where a lot of the
employment for Colwyn Bay has happened and some of the money could be used to
regenerate that area. One of the things that the Minister wants to do is create jobs.

Local Councillors were of the mind that Colwyn Bay and Rhyl would benefit from the
SRA funding but Old Colwyn is sat in the middle whilst still in the regeneration area. Much
was spoken about for Colwyn Bay but not much for Old Colwyn. Councillors publicised
some public meetings and met with the business people and set up a little group which
started to look at what might be put together. The Councillors and the group thought that
there would be ages to carry out planning but a few weeks ago, the Minister for
Regeneration called in the Chief Executives of Denbighshire and Conwy and gave them
directives because they were not spending any of his money. He wants money spent this
year; he has a budget this year and will lose it if it is not spent.

Local Councillors had thought that the Minister would have wanted plans as with all local
authority spending but that is not the case, he wants money spending hence why the two
public meetings are important. Collectively if a couple of projects can be decided which are
easy hits / quick hits they can be done this year. Other things on the list will take longer and
a list can be formed and planned out with some things planned to be put forward for the
next financial year and ongoing for the year after that. There is money to be spent by
31st March 2010 which is why there are press stories about the County Council buying
property. There is a reason why the Council wants to buy certain properties within Colwyn
Bay; Councillor Squire has found four such properties.

Councillor Cossey stated that he had handed out a letter at the previous meeting of the
residents’ association. The Councillors had fourteen ideas, he emphasised that are just
that ideas. If the meeting does not agree with it the worst thing that can happen is a line
can be drawn through the idea on the letter. Nothing has been planned yet, nothing has
been organised, and it is just ideas on a piece of paper.

He the outlined some comments which he had received, Dilys Thomas a local Old Colwyn
historian had given her apologies for the meeting and had concluded that the cash pot is
the foremost reason for the plans. Old Colwyn’s Victorian Heritage is now history and
should be treated as such. Therefore the proposals for permanent changes to the village
are not now valid.
David Curtis the secretary of the Residents’ Association had sent an email containing a
multitude of valid points.
Many of the ideas are supportable such as Victorian shop fronts, there is however an issue
of protective security blinds / shutters which is a very emotive issue in the village. Some
shops have erected them to protect their property after multiple attacks having their
windows smashed. These shutters have been fiercely opposed by the Planning
Department in the Conservation area but there is presently a moratorium on the issue.
That would obviously change if Victorian frontages were to be introduced. The plan should
also take security blinds into the equation. The idea of golden hellos for new businesses
from public funding, when some of our existing shops are struggling is possibly
questionable.
There is a lot of signage spoken about in the document; all the railings and ironwork will
have to be upkept where necessary otherwise it can become tired looking as has happened
to the blue metal seating areas in Rhyl Town centre. We do tend to get criminal damage in
Old Colwyn at times, graffiti, damage to bus shelters etc and you cannot change culture as
you can change street furniture.
Councillor Cossey talked specifically about the Community Hub being the flagship for this
bid together with the Victorian shop fronts. The old Church House building has been
chosen for this, even though it is a grade two listed building. If there is community approval
to this aspect this may sway the argument for delisting it. Such delisting would be opposed
however by various groups as previously and it would also be very expensive to demolish
because of the asbestos in the roof. We are told that the red Cross Centre and the
Community Centre in Church Walks could be sold off to finance the Community Hub, why
not refurbish the Red Cross Centre as part of the project. The aspect which will no doubt
be thrown in to support the idea of a community hub is the creation of local jobs.
There are other points to consider in this argument. We have a number of premises around
Old Colwyn which have been renovated / built at public expense such as the Church of
Sure Hope (Interchange) United Reform Church in the park which was the MASE Building, I
think it is now TAPE and The Millennium Suite in the Methodist Church, to name but three.
What Dave is saying is that we have to be careful not to upset the equilibrium that we have
already.
There is much to commend the demolition of the Church House because of its condition;
there is much to commend the idea of a soft play centre being built there. Concentrating a
large number of activities, even if it were possible, will no doubt adversely affect the public
order situation in a residential area.
At our residents’ meeting on the 14th October we had representation from a member of the
Min y Don Bowling Club who heard the announcement. The Club Pavilion in Min y Don
Park is set for demolition with no plans to rebuild. Why not include bowling in the Victorian
theme, National Bowling Associations were established in the late 1800s.
Councillor Cossey commented that David Curtis had sent in another letter where he lists
five additional ideas to the fourteen that the Councillors had listed.

Councillor Cossey reiterated that the fourteen points listed were ideas and nothing is in
tablets of stone.

He added that the Councillors have consulted Bryn Elian School Council to see what they
thought about the ideas they gave their top three as,

Councillor Cossey said that he had returned to the school to ascertain if they had any other
ideas but the reply had been that the fourteen points listed were quite sufficient. The five
points listed by David Curtis were not known at that time.

Richard Poynton said that the Councillors had asked for input and they had got it.
Councillor Cossey agreed and asked if everyone had seen the fourteen points. He then
suggested that the meeting work through the list.

Councillor Chris Perry spoke about the lack of consultation with residents to this point
over quite a long period, Councillor Cossey replied that what they had been trying to do
was to collect together a series of ideas; once peoples’ ideas have been collected from
the previous meeting and the present one, the Councillors will go away and write a bit of a
plan; they will then re-consult every house in the village to make sure that they have got it
right. The Councillors managed to get together a small group of people who had not been
involved in anything before, to come up with ideas. That is what they have done.

The Chair said that the Committee including the secretary had consulted with Councillor
Cossey about the issues of consultation and we wished to move forward at this point.

Councillor Cossey then asked if anyone liked the idea of a Community Hub

The Chair asked if anyone had any particular objections or otherwise to the use of the Old
Church House.

A resident asked what the Councillors meant by Community Hub.
Councillor Cossey replied that the idea that Councillors had was to buy the Church House
next to St John’s Church. We know that there are problems because it is a grade two listed
building; we would have to go through delisting it. The idea is then to demolish it, to build a
two storey building in its place which would be a Hub for all members of the community.
The idea is that there would be a soft play area, an internet café, Youth group meeting
place, Scouts, Guides, Red Cross, Meithrin, Choir, Drama, and Music.
One of the problems is that there is a Community Centre in Old Colwyn at Greenhill /
Rosehill; unfortunately it is too small, it is the best used Community centre in the County.
Councillor Cossey added that he is the treasurer of the centre. It is not really big enough
for everything that goes on there. The Red Cross Centre has had a lot of money spent on it
by the Council to make it into a youth centre but it has never really taken off and is
never really used.
Councillor Cossey added that he does have a lot of sympathy for the idea that the TAPE
building (the old MASE building near Min y Don Park), the Community Centre and the other
premises such as the Methodist Church hall, should work better together to make sure that
events can take place.
So may be not to have one building but to make sure that we get the best out of the ones
that we already have and if any of them need refurbishment then we should be putting that
in the plan.

Ray Gardner spoke of what Councillor Cossey had outlined as looking for a “quick fix”. He
added that the Min y Don Bowling Club has planning permission to rebuild the pavilion and
needs money to build it. That building could be used as a public facility with toilets,
hot water, tea and coffee making facilities. If a quick hit is looked for, that would fit the bill.
The Chair pointed out that there appeared to be a lot of agreement on that idea.
Councillor Viv Perry stated her ideas for consideration.
Have a one storey building in Min y Don Park as suggested. One storey would remove the
need for a lift which would be necessary with a two storeys building. The Council have the
plans for Glasdir in Llanrwst which is a brilliant modern building with facilities to cater for all
sections of the community; indoor soft play for little ones; and also add low level lighting in
Min y Don Park. Glasdir also provides toilets for Llanrwst by locking the inside when the
centre is closed; the public can still access the toilets from outside.
She stated that she thought it would not take much for the Council architects to amend the
plans to fit in with the location.
Councillor Cossey spoke of an idea which was supported at the Monday meeting, that of
a brand new building to be put into Min y Don Park which would accommodate a new
centre for the Old Colwyn Sports Club around the bowling green to accommodate the
tennis as well. He added that there had been a little concern expressed from people who
live on Albert Road and Berthes Road.
Janet Gardner said that other teams come to the Bowling Club from all over the country
and they stay in local hotels for a week, there are 3000 – 4000 visitors to the club in a year.
Mark Chatham asked what type of planning permission is in place, is it like for like?
Councillor Cossey replied that it is for a brand new pavilion within the confines of the
green but there is no reason that it could not be opened up further.
Janet Gardner added that Shane Wetton had given Ray a list of people to contact for
grants for the pavilion; he had already had a cheque for £700 and the co-op have promised
£2000.

Councillor Cossey added It would be handy if you could tell us if we should go for the
Church House - an existing building or go for a new building on Min y Don.
A resident commented that she had not lived in Old Colwyn for very long and asked if the
Councillors research and knowledge of the place indicated that it would be more
encompassing to have several hubs rather than just one as she could foresee parking
would be much easier with more than one building and less divisive of the area. It would
keep the other buildings going possibly with some changes.
Councillor Cossey indicated that the Councillors had not gone into that much detail yet
they are looking to see if there is a big opinion in one way or the other.

A resident said that one of the problems that people have in the Min y Don area is that the
people at the east end of the village have got nowhere to go, things all seem to be
centralised down the other end. She thought that that was the reason why they had the
East Residents association whereby something is done in this part of the village. She
commented that a previous speaker may agree that a lot of problems come from the
east end of the village and they are going maybe to somewhere for the youth etc;
transport is not brilliant through the village. She added that she thought that we should be
looking at the east of the village for a location. We already have The Interchange, we
already have facilities down there, what about this end of the Bay?  

Councillor Cossey replied If you went into where we use existing buildings and use them
in a cleverer way, we have the community centre in Tan Lan of course, there is only the
Methodist Church and the only green space is Bodlondeb Park down the bottom of Station
Road.

Councillor Chris Perry spoke of the fact that a group of councillors and others had looked
at the issue of St John’s Church House twelve years ago. When Jumpin Jungle went in,
there were problems with parking and so on but it was an absolutely brilliant facility
because the children that went there were accompanied by their parents. If you are going
to open it up to every group of Scouts, Youth Club, Music Club and whatever, you are
bringing children and youths into Old Colwyn at goodness knows what time of night they
are going to finish, with no parental supervision. That can’t be right.

CBM Mike Williams the problem is Chris that not all groups of youths are bad, there are a
lot of groups of youths that are good. It’s something you have to live with.
Councillor Chris Perry replied no but surely it should be shared out. With the availability
of cheap drink in Old Colwyn, you are asking for trouble.
Councillor Cossey summed up that that is a good argument for us to continue to use our
existing buildings and facilities but work together better.
When asked, Councillor Cossey clarified that there were millions of pounds available
and that if the right project is written in the right way, there is money available from Europe
as well as SRA funding from the Minister.
A Resident pointed out that Councillor Cossey said earlier that the Minister wants to see
money spent in this financial year. We all know how long a surveyor etc takes to do things.
You mentioned the park and the bowling green in Min y Don. The only thing that stops the
project going ahead tomorrow is money as the plans are already passed.
CBM Mike Williams suggested that he had heard a rumour that Somerfield were
interested in buying the Church House for a car park. This was not a matter known to
anyone in the room.
A resident supported the idea of a community hub but it occurred to him that if Councillors
buy the Church House, it’s a grade two listed building; there will be all sorts of objections. If
those objections are upheld it will stay as it is what will happen to it then?
The other matter which occurred to the speaker was that the councillors are talking about
spending the money by 31st March, are they going to be able to spend it on that building by
then.
Councillor Cossey replied that it takes about eight weeks to buy a building. There will be
problems when it comes to delisting it but pointed out that the association secretary did a
poll of the Old Colwyn East residents association when houses were going to be built there
and the vast majority of people were in favour of its demolition. We have to use people
power to get things changed. The building has an asbestos roof, the mortar was made with
sea sand and is rotten now, it has rising damp, falling damp, and it is not disability friendly.

A resident pointed out that a lot money is coming to North Wales for the area between
Rhyl and Colwyn bay and asked what proportion of the money would come to Colwyn Bay.
There was a question about projects in Rhyl which were not pertinent to the discussion as
they were to be funded from different funding streams.   
Councillor Cossey replied that if the projects are good, all the money will come to Conwy.
Councillor Squire added that the situation is desperate now so all sorts of things can be
thrown into the pot.
Councillor Cossey told those assembled that if they thought it sensible that we move on
the Church House, as the place for a Community Hub the councillors could ask the Minister
for the money to buy it the following day. It could possibly be bought for £150,000 and then
the plan for how to develop it can be done the following year.
Councillor Squire added that the building only has to be bought; he said that he has
identified a property which has five storeys, three cottages and a barn and all that is
needed is to buy it. He has no worry what goes there in its place as it gets rid of fifty bed
sits.
Reverend Forecast asked what the danger was of not getting the building delisted, in
his experience there is difficulty of getting church properties delisted, it is not unheard of.
He asked how big a risk is there if we buy it, the risk is that we cannot get it delisted.
Councillor Cossey replied, we would not buy it, the County Council would buy it, if at the
end of the day it could not go ahead they would have to sell it on. Its status at present is a
white elephant and he could not imagine anyone wanting to buy it.
Councillor Chris Perry pointed out that when Jumpin Jungle wanted to build a ramp for
disabled wheelchair access on the front wall. After they had spent all that money on the
building they were refused permission for a ramp, so they had to put a wooden ramp in the
front bolted to the wall to get round the Planning Regulations. You cannot go spending
£200,000 public money on a building that you may or may not get planning permission to
use.
Councillor Cossey replied you can if that is what we want to do.
The Chair added that there are bound to be persons for and against but in a lot of terms,
we have had such a lot of trouble over Church House in the last ten years, it would be a
good idea to bring it into the public domain so that we can make sure something is done
with it.

Councillor Cossey then called a straw poll of persons wanting some kind of new
building in Min y Don Park.
There was overwhelming support for a new building in Min y Don Park with improvements
to the park.

He then called a poll of those who fancied the Church House.
There was little response to this aspect of the plan   

He then asked if anyone thought that the Church House project had anywhere to go
There was little response to this aspect of the plan.

He then asked if anyone just liked the idea of just using existing buildings but
working better together.
There was support to this idea but not overwhelming support.

A resident then asked if there is nothing done with the Church House, how long is it going
to stand as it is. It is going to stay as an eyesore if it isn’t bought by the council. What is
going to happen with it?

Councillor Cossey added that the reason that the secretary had done a poll of the
residents association was that there was a builder who wanted to build a terrace of six
affordable houses. We all felt that was an ideal solution for the site at the time. He was not
prepared to take on the fight any further and possibly getting permission refused.

A resident asked if it could be knocked down to make a car park which was a scenario
brought up earlier by CBM Mike Williams.

Councillor Cossey then moved on to the CCTV upgrade for Old Colwyn additional
cameras especially at Marine Roundabout, Cefn Road and Penmaenhead.

Mark Chatham quoted Councillor Bob Squire from recent minutes as saying that a bid for
new CCTV had been very successful but we are now saying in these points that we would
not mind upgrading the Old Colwyn CCTV with SRA funding.

Councillor Cossey explained that the money that Councillor Squire went to get is to
upgrade the system at the Centre.

Councillor Squire added that the Welsh Assembly wanted bids that were regional. CCTV
systems were failing in Conwy and other counties and it was the Conwy County Team
including the Chief Executive who went to Cardiff to support the bid. The CCTV Control
Room will be in Conwy County and the systems will all be overhauled.

Councillor Viv Perry spoke to say if a nice big centre was required for CCTV, buy the
Church House.

The third poll was about having distinctive gateways to the village. He explained when
people drive into Llanrwst, there is a big wooden sculpture on the side of the road.The idea
in Old Colwyn is a gateway with obviously welcome to Old Colwyn on it.
A Resident said that she was not in favour of gates, perhaps a sort of public house type
sign.
The idea was not supported.

The next poll was 100% grants for all shops to upgrade and restore shop fronts to a
Victorian theme with an option to replace or renovate the canopies that we have. This
was not supported well.
Councillor Cossey then asked if the meeting was in favour of looking at renovating the
ones that we have at present or to extend the ones we have down as far as the chemists
shop.
That received some support; there was a query if the theme had to be Victorian. We are
past Victorian now.
Councillor Cossey said that the existing frontages are Edwardian. He added that if the
meeting liked the idea of a canopy, perhaps it should be Elizabethan, a modern one.
He went on to explain that if people go to Penmaenmawr and look at the canopies which
they have recently redone there under the Townscape Heritage Initiative and Quarry
funding, they are absolutely fantastic. Before the canopy was renovated, virtually all the
shops were closed. They have revamped the whole of the veranda and all the shops are
now full. In Old Colwyn, there is no reason why it should not be a modern veranda, upkeep
of the veranda would be part of an agreement and is not an issue.
CBM Mike Williams thought that the gateway idea might tie in with a veranda and provide
advertising of the village.
Councillor Cossey undertook to try to get some photomontage representations of what
such a scheme would look like and bring them back to a future meeting.

The next idea was uniform street furniture in Abergele Road and the Conservation
area. Lights, railings, bins, signs, bus shelters all done in a matching theme to
whatever design is decided. Supported

The next idea was for Berthes Road car park, to upgrade railings barriers, bus
shelter and provide a concrete base for recycling pods. That was agreed - Councillor
Cossey explained that early next year some of the pods would be removed with the advent
of kerbside collections of some waste.

The next idea was to resurface Cefn Road and provide seating and planters.  In
somewhat the style of Station Road, Colwyn Bay. The pavement and Road surface would
be on the same level in a smart and attractive stone. It might perhaps be used in the future
for a small market or an entertainment venue.

The next idea was linking the promenade path with Tan y Coed gardens, Llawr
Pentre, and Fairy Glen, heritage maps etc. This is already in process whether through
SRA or not as a Cliff Prout River Walk. The sculpture is part of that process.

The next idea was relocate the taxi rank and offices maybe to the old M&K building
or make the site a public car park. He explained that this is another building that the
Councillors are afraid may stay vacant for some time and it is right in the middle of the
village. The proposal is to buy and demolish it and make it into a car parking area and
maybe persuade the taxis to use it as their base rather than Cefn Road. There was
support for this idea with concern about the detail such as zig zag lines.

The next idea was to support Mark Earp (Parks and gardens) in his project to
improve the Old Colwyn to Colwyn bay paths and walkways along the promenade
and through Eirias Park. This will help with the green travel plan of a £5million
revamp of Eirais Park due to take place soon. It is also supported by Colwyn bay.
This was supported.

The next idea was Colwyn Bay Football Club has a new board of directors who want to
move into youth football in a big way, they are putting forward an expansion program. The
ground is within Old Colwyn. The Councillors think that it is something that we should
support for our young people to be able to join in.

The next idea was there is concern about signage directing people off the beach and
A55 to the village; we need a survey of signs to make sure people can find the village.
The next idea was Marine roundabout which the Councillors think looks awful. It is
difficult to know what to do with it to make it look more attractive. Large vehicles have to go
over the island when negotiating it. The idea was to cobble the centre and make the
railings look more attractive.
Councillor Viv Perry said that the roundabout is marred by the railings and if we are to
have coordinated street furniture then it should be the same. She said that the same is true
of the railings by the crossing in the centre of the village.

There was discussion about the taxis not using the taxi rank and abusing the waiting
restrictions. The rank is about to be moved across the road from its present location.
It is a well worn argument and Councillor Squire placed it on record that the taxis cannot
be prevented from using the public waiting areas. When they are on the rank they must be
in their vehicles. Councillor Cossey stated that they are two of our useful businesses that
we want to keep. The idea is that we create a car park especially for them at the old M&K
building.

A question was asked about the railings on the promenade. They will go as part of the
Promenade regeneration which is a separate funding stream.

The next idea was Golden hellos to attract business into the village.
Councillor Chris Perry said that he was not against them but thought that they should be
given after a couple of years rather than at the start.
Councillor Cossey said that the idea was not supported at the previous meeting. They
thought that possibly a business rate reduction scheme would be better or a grant to
refurbish and set up the shop inside.

The next idea was to go through the secretary’s four submitted ideas.

Councillor Cossey stated that on Monday, the Councillors would be getting together and
trying to put the ideas brought forward into some kind of written plan.

Councillor Viv Perry asked if the Golf Club had been considered. It was commented that
the Golf club had just had a big extension and was in a good state.

Councillor Cossey asked if anybody had any other good ideas that they wanted to put
forward.

Mark Chatham commented that at the Monday meeting it had been suggested that some
of the shops such as the one next to Jackie’s that had been empty for years should be
bought and turned into dwellings. He added that it is difficult to regenerate Old Colwyn and
leave that as it is.
Councillor Cossey answered that it was a suggestion and that Councillor Viv Perry would
know better than anyone, the old shops that were by the Post office were derelict for a long
time and North Wales Housing bought them and turned them into housing. It was
suggested that someone should do a survey of our shops to see if any of those which are
currently closed would not be better off being converted back into a dwelling.
Councillor Viv Perry added that she thought there are perhaps too many shops to be
sustainable in the village and has a view that the Post Office may not be in the right
location. The whole block could be turned into dwellings if the Post Office and Liberal
Building were moved to other premises possibly the old Rowlands Chemist shop where
people can park outside away from the zig zags. We don’t want a mixture of shops and
houses on the main street; continuity is necessary.
Councillor Cossey saw that as a good idea and he agreed that there ought to be a survey
done of the shops.
Reverend Keith Forecast summed up that in his view, some of these ideas appeared to
be coming together in the main street; refurbishing the awnings outside the shops; new
shop fronts; and there had been talk of how many shops we need. He added that it seemed
to him coming into Old Colwyn, it looks shabby and will do so until some major scheme
such as the Penmaenmawr scheme referred to takes place in the village.
It appeared from what had been said in the meeting that the Penmaenmawr scheme
brought new business into the village. He felt that it is all coming together in the shopping
centre, even the matter of the toilets which is part of that so he asked why don’t you, or a
group concentrate on that as a major scheme from the Marine right through, so that we
have a coordinated scheme.
Councillor Cossey agreed that that seemed reasonable.

Councillor Cossey summed up that they would take forward the ideas from the
Monday meeting and the residents’ meeting and work on them and come up with
something to send around to every house in Old Colwyn.

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Forty persons present