Old Colwyn (East) Residents’ Association
Minutes of a talk by Melanie Lawton, Arson Reduction Coordinator, North Wales Fire and Rescue Service to the Open Meeting Wednesday 11th February 2009
Melanie introduced herself to the meeting; she has been in the Fire service for 7 years and with the Arson Reduction Team for 4 years. She had a presentation to show the meeting and said that they were aware of the problems in the area with bin fires. She would talk through what the Team do and the scale of the problem and what the Team and the police are doing to combat the problem and what the public can do to help.
The Arson Reduction Team was formed in 2005. It is a joint team with a police sergeant on secondment to the Fire Service and four fire officers. There are two arson reduction officers and an arson reduction manager. It is a strategic team and works right across the North Wales area. The Fire areas mirror the Police areas broken down by counties.
Melanie said that she is based in St Asaph. When a call is made to the Fire Service the information is transferred straight to the police control room. The Fire Service and the Police are now in one joint control room which is good for cooperation.
The message is typed into a computer and Melanie is able to search the calls under various tabs to give her a list of incidents. Incidents can be mapped by the computers using historical information. Melanie cautioned the members that it is really important that they report all fires. If all fires are reported it gives managers the full picture and often there may be a pattern develops.
She said that there were 34 fires since October 2008 and she said that she knew the public were aware that there had been more since January 27th when the list was compiled.
Some fires were shown as accidental, only because it was not proved that there was a deliberate cause.
It had been difficult to establish that there was a wheelie bin fire problem in Old Colwyn because there has been a case recently of a woman who was setting fires herself and until she was taken out of the equation, it was very difficult to work out that there were two problems. The woman is now serving 18 months in prison.
The arson reduction Team is taking the matter very seriously and working hard to
combat it. There has recently been a multi-
An Action Plan has been developed
Various members of the meeting have taken away different parts of the joint response to organise and deal with.
As part of the research, the team has become aware of the fact that residents are afraid to report bin fires. This fact is one which concerns the Arson Reduction Team. These people will try to put the fires out themselves, either with a personal extinguisher or a hose pipe. Melanie said that the Fire Service would not endorse that action at all. She cautioned members; phone the Fire service on 999, we will attend.
CBM Mike Williams and the policing team will continue to identify the suspects, it is felt that persons are not targeted but the bins have been left out and the attacks are random in that way.
A Press release will be done by Mike Williams asking people to report deliberate fires and for any information to be told to the authorities. It appears that fires are occurring between 4pm and 8pm and it is thought that younger people are involved.
The Fire service have wheelie bin locks which can be provided free of charge. This auto unlocks when the bin lorry lifts and tips it.
The Fire service is doing presentations to Schools in two year groups to get people to think of possible consequences of such fires. Public reassurance talks will also be given. All residents are welcome to have a free fire safety check. Some bins are put up against buildings and set on fire and residents need to know how to escape in the event of a fire. Old Colwyn is being treated as a priority.
There are two programs run by the Fire service for young offenders responsible for fire setting or on the verge. These programs are called the Phoenix course and Fire safe. The Prevent and Deter panel (Youth Justice Service) can refer people to those courses. A lot of actions are taking place and the Team want the problem to stop.
Several interventions are available for different types of situations, such as wheelie bin locks in this type of situation.
Melanie gave advice of how to reduce the risk of wheelie bin fires
It is amazing how quick fire can spread so never put a bin close to the property especially against door or a window. They should be secured where possible behind locked gates; alternatively secure them away from the building.
Melanie said that she had driven around on the way to the meeting and there were a lot of bins on the street when she came to the meeting. She assumed that it was collection day tomorrow. They should only be on the road on collection day and returned as quickly as possible.
She cautioned that residents should never try to put fires out themselves, there had been occasions where people had put them out themselves but she said the danger of fire is great and urged people to give that message to friends and family; Phone 999 in the first instance.
Melanie told people that if they needed further reassurance, they could contact their local policing team and gave the numbers to phone.
Questions
A resident said There were two wheelie bins set on fire at the back of 22 Cefn Road last Thursday, I told them about it to move it because there was a load of rubbish there, the next day it was all pulled together and burned.
Melanie said that the press release that the CBM will give out will give the numbers and emphasise to people not to leave their bins out.
Cliff Prout during the talk I thought that you said that people were frightened to report fires…
Melanie some residents feel that they are being targeted, that their bins are being set on fire and chosen specifically, we are not finding that it is the case. Some residents feel that and it has been reported through the housing associations. It is more opportunist crime; if the bin is out and the person is walking past, it may be set on fire.
A Resident about the beginning of December we reported a fire in a bin to the fire service, we were not the first people to report it, it was not our property, it was backing on to ours. We were very disappointed at how long it took the Fire service to get there. By that time the very big fire had become a smaller fire and that would encourage people to try and put it out themselves.
Melanie What people may not be aware of is, obviously, the Fire Service will try and get there in the first instance. The Colwyn Bay Station is a retained station. A crew is on duty between midday and 10pm. If there is a wheelie bin fire and the crew go to that event and then there is a second call for a house fire, the crew that has gone to the wheelie bin cannot divert to the house fire. It may be a retained crew that is called in to the second call, which would be four minutes to the station and then the time from the station to the address. It is not an excuse but that is a reason and the wheelie bins are diverting our resources causing unnecessary danger to life and property.
Mark Chatham you say there have been 34 incidents, how does that relate to other areas?
Melanie unusually high activity, in the Arson Reduction Team, I work all across North
Wales, I have two such areas of high incidence or hot spots in North Wales. This
is one of them and that is why we are focussing a lot of inter-
Janet Gardner I have two friends at Church who live in flats and they cannot get their wheelie bins out for 7am so they put them out the night before and they are regularly set on fire.
Melanie this would be an ideal opportunity to fit a wheelie bin lock. Mike is doing extra patrols; we know the times that the calls come in. Also the Fire Service will drive around the areas concerned on the way back from incidents. High visibility patrols reassure residents and may deter the offenders. Anybody who wants a lock contact myself or the control room or CBM Mike Williams.
Councillor Cossey who fits them?
Melanie either fit them yourself with two drill bits or we will arrange for someone to fit them for you as in the case of the two ladies spoken about.
Richard Poynton do you think that any arsonist about might see these extra patrols as a challenge and do more? Also is there a specific time when it is happening?
Melanie there have been cases where publicity has had an adverse effect. We put a simple message out to ask people to report fires and not to leave their bins out. The time is between 4pm and 8pm.
Mark Chatham do they specifically target bins?
Melanie, it does seem to be wheelie bins, we have had two fence panels, one hedge and the rest were bins.
A resident we had a phone call the last week about a free fire safety check and I rang up and the person that I spoke to did not seem to have any idea what I was talking about. She said that she would pass the information on and they would get in touch but we have not heard anything.
Melanie I will chase that up for you, it is not a problem. The number given is for the control room. A letter has probably been generated to you.
A resident I had a fire in the back of my house three weeks ago in the bin and they came out very rapidly, my wife phoned. They were there in 20 minutes, they could not get around the back but they went around with sprinklers, they were brilliant.
A resident spoke of an elderly neighbour who had a fire safety check about eighteen months ago. She was promised a new appliance and has not heard anything since.
Melanie if you give me her address, I will look it up.
Chair Thank you very much Melanie, it has been very reassuring for you to come here tonight and talk to us as it has been several months now that we have been reporting these fires regularly and we appreciate that is difficult to catch the people doing the job and that is the problem for the police. We are doing our best asking our residents to keep watch and tell the police anything that they suspect. That same message has gone from you and I value you coming tonight, thank you.
There was a round of applause.
